"No problem. Here are two sources that I agreed were credible, and whose claims I accepted:"
(This one would take a while to explain, so those interested should just read it. Basically it's a request for the United States District Court of Columbia to ignore the plea of Exxon to dismiss a case in which they are accused of extrajudicial killings, making people disappear, and torture. . .
Anyway, on to the last source: http://dte.gn.apc.org/49Ach.htm
This is from the homepage of Down to Earth, an organization that
"monitors and campaigns on the social and human implications of environmental issues in Indonesia."
<long quote of article removed>
Because of their solid sources, their claims hold merit.
"There's an example of one of each, a labor rights and humanitarian source."
Yes. Two sources.
1) How many human rights sources fall into the "NON-credible" category?
2) Why were these sources missing from the following analysis (of which I was commenting on):
Exxon has already participated in genocide of the local population for that oil.
"According to the rebels. The US Department of State says it's the Indonesian military that has done these things. I think that is probably accurate, since to my knowledge Exxon doesn't have private soldiers they use to kill people."
(#1020233 - Sat Jan 08 2005 09:14 PM )
Or are you only admitting the credibility of sources that do not prove (or claim to prove) that Exxon actually got it's hands dirty?
What about Tapol? Do you find them credible?http://tapol.gn.apc.org/
They are the primary Human Rights organization for Indonesia. They say:
By the time of the merger between Exxon and Mobil Oil, there was a 'clear public record of pervasive and systematic human rights violations perpetrated upon the innocent non-combatant villagers of Aceh by the TNI troops specifically hired to provide "security" for the Arun Project'. This included provision for two military barracks located near the installations, commonly referred to as 'Post 113' and 'Rancong Camp' which were used by Kopassus (special forces) units to interrogate, torture and murder Acehnese civilians suspected of engaging in separatist activities. It also included the provision of heavy equipment so that the Indonesian military could dig mass graves to bury their Acehnese victims, and the use of roads constructed by the companies to transport the military's victims to mass graves located near company premises.
Since the collapse of the Suharto regime, the defendants' 'security' service, the TNI, have continued without restraint to practice 'ethnic genocide', while the company has ignored pleas by numerous human rights groups to cease its operations in Aceh until it can make arrangements to operate without using the murderous TNI for security.
A litany of abuses
All the plaintiffs, referred to simply as John or Jane Doe, were subjected to abuses at the hands of troops guarding the company's premises. One plaintiff was shot in the wrist, had a grenade thrown at him and was left for dead. He lost a hand and his left eye. The second was forced onto a truck, beaten severely on the head and body, blindfolded and taken to Rancong where he was tortured for months. The third was shot three times in the leg then dragged to a post where he was tortured while his gunshot wounds bled, had his skull cracked and was burnt with cigarettes. He was finally released after a bribe was paid. The fourth was beaten by soldiers, accused of being GAM and had the letters 'GAM' carved on his back with a knife. The fifth was held in a building inside the company's complex, tortured with cigarettes and electricity, sustaining severe injuries to his head and body. His captors also beat his son and broke his leg. The sixth plaintiff was tortured then taken to his village and ordered to identify all villagers who were members of GAM. When he denied knowing any GAM members, he was beaten and shot in the leg. After hospitalisation, he was tortured again, suffering more severe injuries. Finally, his village head made a collection in the village and bribed the police to release him. Male plaintiff No 7 was taken by his captors to an office inside the company compound where he was beaten with the butt of a gun and a hammer, sustaining severe injuries.
The house of the first female plaintiff, who was pregnant at the time, was forcibly entered by a soldier who threatened to kill her and her unborn child, then sexually assaulted her. The second woman plaintiff's husband was shot dead while working in a field, while the third woman's husband was taken from their home at gunpoint and never re-appeared. Female plaintiff No 4 also lost her husband when he was working in a field where he was shot and killed.
The court was requested to award the plaintiffs compensatory and punitive damages and to enjoin the defendant from further engaging in human rights abuses against the plaintiffs and their fellow villagers in complicity with the Indonesian government and military.
Pertamina: 'We're responsible'
In response to the lawsuit, Exxon issued a statement 'categorically' denying any suggestion that it or its affiliate companies were involved in abuses by the security forces. For its part, Pertamina claimed that it was responsible for ExxonMobil security. 'The protection for all vital installations is the responsibility of Pertamina,' the company said, adding that it was common for the company to ask for assistance from the government if its vital installations came under threat. The president-director denied that they financed troops, but 'simply provided some health, housing and transportation facilities for the security officers ... in return for their services in guarding our facilities'. [Jakarta Post, 23 June 2001]
No one should expect early results from the lawsuit. Other cases, against Unocal in Burma and Shell/Chevron in Nigeria, are currently under consideration in US courts and it could take years for a verdict to be handed down.
Exxon and US policy
Three months before the lawsuit was filed, Exxon halted all its operations in Arun for reasons of security. Four days later, the Indonesian cabinet adopted a decision to declare GAM a 'separatist' organisation and set in motion preparations for an all-out offensive in Aceh. This came with Presidential Instruction No IV/2001 (Inpres/IV) on 11 April and the commencement of military operations on 2 May. A primary aim of the operations was the need to persuade Exxon to resume operations, as the shutdown was costing the Indonesian state $100 million a month in revenue and a possible meltdown of its guaranteed overseas market for liquefied natural gas. Even before specially-trained counter-insurgency troops were sent to Aceh from various parts of Indonesia with a mission 'to crush GAM', an additional 2,000 troops were sent to increase 'security' at the Arun field. http://tapol.gn.apc.org/162nexxo.htm
They also say:
The people of Aceh are suffering the gravest catastrophe in their history in the aftermath of the earthquake and tsunami, which struck on 26 December 2004.
The devastation and humanitarian crisis are unprecedented. The official death toll is currently 52,000. The final figure could be as high as 100,000. Tens of thousands are homeless and facing the prospect of killer diseases.
The disaster has been compounded by chaotic mismanagement by the Indonesian authorities and the legacy of decades of violent conflict. A war has been raging in the territory since the 1970s between the Indonesian military and the separatist Free Aceh Movement, GAM.
The Indonesian government's response to the crisis has been slow, lacked coherence and demonstrated a reluctance, for political reasons associated with the conflict, to involve the international community. Currently just two helicopters have been deployed to assist with the immense relief and rehabilitation operation.
The government has severely restricted access to Aceh by international humanitarian organisations since the imposition of martial law in May 2003. Even now it is sending out mixed messages about the lifting of restrictions. Desperately-needed aid is being held up in Medan, North Sumatra.
Intimidation and violence against local NGOs by the security forces have incapacitated civil society and severely curtailed their ability to respond to the crisis."http://tapol.gn.apc.org/st041230.htm
According to this universally respected source, Exxon has participated greatly in the genocide, and the government is withholding aid from the people of Aceh - the hardest hit place in the entire region - during this crisis.
I didn't attack your "character" - I noticed a pattern in your argument. It's as ridiculous as me saying your constant dismissal of the facts presented as "not credible" is an attack on MY character.
"I don't see a pattern of me blanketly believing government and military sources and discounting all others."
What about that "according to the rebels" quote above?
"I would also point out that I'm not chosing the sources for the most part, you are. When I look at a source I'm looking at the following:
Who wrote it, can they be contacted, do they have obvious bias, do they have expertise on the matter on which they are commenting, has anyone else verified their information, and if not, can I verify their information?"
You don't have a science background and you are too quick to discount the science background of others - just to be able to avoid talking about HAARP entirely, even though they provide souces and meet all your other criteria.
C.L. Herzenberg, Physics and Society, April 1994.
R. Williams, Physics and Society, April 1988.
B. Eastlund, Microwave News, May/June 1994.
W. Kofman and C. Lathuillere, Geophysical Research Letters, Vol 14, No. 11, pp 1158-1161, November 1987 (Includes French experiments at EISCAT).http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/envronmt/weapons.htm
Rosalie Bertell IS qualified to comment on HAARP (she would have been criticized by others for lying or bullshitting had she done so, but so far there are no attacks on the substance of what she is saying by the rest of the scientific community - only weak attacks on her abilities by you.
"If a source looks suspect(like the Berkley professor being quoted out of context) I look more deeply into the matter."
You only look deeply into the matter to discredit something, not to understand something. You don't seem to want to look at my collection of Exxon "world war crimes", or the extent of Exxon's participation in the genocide in Aceh, or HAARP's true capabilities .... or anything else I'm claiming in this discussion. For every two sources you admit are "legit", there are many, many more you discount for the most trivial of reasons.
Re-read the above posts - they participate by paying the military and occationally supplying equipment to bulldoze mass graves and rooms to torture people with - that's even more than being an "accessory" to crime - that's being an "organizer" of crime.
"We agree. Exxon is an accessory to this criminal and murderous behavior."
We don't agree. I'm calling them "ORGANIZERS" of these crimes, you're calling them "accessories". They pay for the crimes, they benefit from them - they are the bosses and the military do their bidding.
For example, executives in I.G. Farben (Exxon's old business partners) were found guilty of "mass murder" (they were never called "accessories") at Nuremburg even though none of them were present for the killings at their "I.G. Auschwitz plant" or their own private concentration camp - Auschwitz 3 (Monowitz). Calling them "accessories" would have down-played their role as "sponsors" - even though it might be accurate in a legal sense, it does nothing to explain their leading role in the matter.
Where do I "pretend" Exxon did these things. All I claim is that they paid for it and benefitted from it, as well as provide torture rooms and mass-graves building equipment.
"If that is all you're claiming, then again we agree. The Indonesian military doing the killing makes it difficult to tie it all back to Rockefller though, since he didn't create the Indonesian military."
Au contrare. Rockefeller's main lawyers were the Dulles brothers - of which Allen Dulles was a primary creator of the CIA. The CIA put Suharto into power. These are historical facts.
The single primary character of the CIA is Mr. Dulles. There's no question about it, it was his agency. Nobody else has left any mark like his.http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/USO/chp2_p1.html#marker=6382
The CIA was directly implicated in the horrific massacres in 1965-66, in which some 600,000 people are believed to have been murdered, which eliminated all dissent, especially on the left. General Suharto was put in power in Jakarta, inaugurating 32 years of army-backed one-man rule. He became America’s favourite dictator in East Asia, and the most corrupt and ruthless. http://www.mafhoum.com/press4/115seale.htm
Dulles derived much of his profits and his clients' profits from investments in Nazi Germany. In the 1930s Dulles set about creating an incredible interlocking financial network between Nazi corporations, American Oil and Saudi Arabia. Here Allen had help from his brother Foster. Perhaps the best-known deal arranged by Dulles was between I.G. Farben and Standard Oil of New Jersey. What is generally not known Farben was the second largest shareholder in standard Oil of New Jersey, second to only John D. Rockefeller himself.11 Another Rockefeller controlled corporation that Dulles worked to protect was the Rockefeller corporation United Fruit, both United Fruit and Standard Oil of New Jersey continued to trade with the Nazis after the out break of war.http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/ratlines.htm
Did you say that you were with the US Military intelligence? I would say that your bias is not only a person not qualified to dismiss the obviously impressive credentials of a scientist,
"To clarify, I didn't dismiss her credentials. I said (and maintain) she lacks the credentials to claim that there's some sort of HAARP/Spacelab combo that can hit the earth with a nuke-equivalent blast of energy."
I say you don't know enough about her to judge. I'd say she's one of the top scientists in the world, and her claims regarding HAARP have yet to be contested by anyone with a science background.
Biographical Sketch: Rosalie Bertell
United Nations Environment Programme,
Global 500 Laureate - 1993
Alternative Nobel Prize:
Right Livelihood Award - 1986
World Federalist Peace Award - 1988
Ontario Premier's Council on Health:
Health Innovator Award - 1991
Marguerite D'Youville Humanitarian Award,
Lexington MA - 1992
Rosalie Bertell, PhD, GNSH, is President of the International Institute of Concern for Public Health (IICPH), and Editor in Chief of International Perspectives in Public Health.
Dr. Bertell served four years as Co-chair for Canada on the Ecosystem Health Workgroup of the Science Advisory Board to the US - Canada International Joint Commission (IJC) on the Great Lakes, and currently serves on the IJC Nuclear Task Force. She also serves as advisor to the Great Lakes Health Effects Program of Health Canada, and to the Environmental Assessment Board of Ontario.
Dr. Bertell Directed the International Medical Commission - Bhopal which investigated the aftermath of the Union Carbide disaster in Bhopal, and of the International Medical Commission - Chernobyl, which convened the Tribunal on violations of the human rights of victims in Vienna, April 1996.
She has received numerous awards and five honorary Doctorate degrees since launching the IICPH in 1984.
Dr. Bertell is a member of the Grey Nuns of the Sacred Heart.
Dr. Bertell earned a Doctorate in Biometry at the Catholic University of America, Washington, DC, in 1966, and has been working ever since time in environmental epidemiology. She has collaborated in analyses undertaken in the US, Canada, Japan, the Marshall Islands, Malaysia, India, Germany, Ukraine and other countries.
Author of Handbook for Estimating the Health Effects of Ionizing Radiation (1984, 1986) and the popular non-fiction book: No Immediate Danger: Prognosis for a radioactive Earth, together with more than a hundred articles, book chapters and poems, Dr. Bertell has reached medical, scientific, and popular audiences around the globe.
No Immediate Danger, has been translated into Swedish, French, German and Finnish. A Russian translation is in process.
By choice, Dr. Bertell works with indigenous people and economically developing countries as they struggle to preserve their human rights to health and life in the face of industrial, technological and military pollution.
She was a founding member of IICPH, an attempt to institutionalize her growing concern for human survival on an intact planet.http://www.ccnr.org/bertell_bio.html
Rosalie Bertell, Ph.D., GNSH
Born April 4, 1929
Buffalo, New York, USA
Member of a Roman Catholic religious community since September 1951
Dual Citizen, Canada and USA
C.V. revised September 25, 2003
INSTITUTION DEGREE DATE FIELD
Buffalo NY, USA B.A., Magna cum Laude 1951 Mathematics
Catholic University of America
Washington, DC, USA M.A. 1959 Mathematics
Catholic University of America
Washington DC, USA Ph.D. 1966 Biometrics with Minors in Biology and Biochemistry
Mount St. Vincent University
Halifax NS, Canada D. Hum. L. Honoris Causa 1985
Buffalo NY, USA D.Sc. Honoris Causa 1988
Sudbury ON, Canada Doctor of Laws Honoris Causa 1988
Ryerson Polytechnical Inst., Toronto ON, Canada Fellowship 1988 "Recognition for substantive work in environmental and occupational health"
University of Windsor, Windsor ON, Canada D.Sc Honoris Causa 1988
The Ontario Institute for Studies in Education,
Toronto ON, Canada Distinguished Educator in Education 1990
INSTITUTION TITLE DATES
International Institute of Concern for Public Health President 9/1987 - 9/2001
International Commission of Health Professionals Founding Member
Secretary General 1/1985 - 1/1993
10/1988 - 12/1989
1/1991 - 1/1993
International Medical Commission Bhopal Founder 1993
International Medical Commission Chernobyl Founder 1996
International Perspectives in Public Health Editor in Chief 1/1984 - present
Ovum Pacis: The Women's University, USA and Canada Faculty Member 6/1994 - present
International Institute of Concern Public Health, Toronto ON, Canada Member of the Board of Directors and Director of Research 6/1984 - 9/1987
Jesuit Centre for Social Faith and Justice, Toronto ON, Canada Energy/Public Health Specialist 9/1980 - 9/1984
Ministry of Concern for Public Health, Buffalo NY, USA Director, Research Consultant 6/1978 - 6/1980
Graduate School of the State University of NY, Buffalo NY, USA Ass't Research Professor 1974 - 1978
Roswell Park Memorial Institute, Buffalo NY, USA Senior Cancer Research Scientist 1970 - 1978
State University of NY, Buffalo NY, USA Visiting Prof. 1972 - 1973
D'Youville College, Buffalo NY, USA Coordinator of Inst. Research 1971 - 1972
D'Youville College, Buffalo NY, USA Associate Prof., Math Dept 1969 - 1972
D'Youville Academy, Atlanta GA, USA Coordinator, High School Math Teachers 1968 - 1969
Sacred Heart Junior College, Pennsylvania Registrar and Assoc. Professor Mathematics 9/1958 - 1/1968
CONSULTANCIES (Partial List)
British Columbia Medical Association, Environmental Health Committee, Canada
Environmental Protection Agency, Environmental Pollutant Movement and Transformation Committee, U.S.A.
National Council of Churches, Energy Task Force, U.S.A.
New York State Medical Society, Committee on Environmental Quality, U.S.A.
Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Standards Development Office, U.S.A.
Consultative Group on Arms Control & Disarmament to the Canadian Ambassador on Disarmament to the U. N.
Citizen's Advisory Committee,President's Commission on the accident at Three Mile Island, U.S.A.
Wisconsin State Medical Society, Committee on Health and the Environment, USA
Ontario Public Service Employee's Union, Canada
Commissioner on the International Commission of Health Professionals, Geneva
Global Education Associates, U.N. Non-Governmental Organization
Canadian Union of Public Employees, Canada
Institute fur Energie und Umweltforschung, Heidelberg, F.R.G.
Japanese Assoc. of Scientists, Japan
Native Americans for a Clean Environment, Oklahoma. U.S.A.
Consumers Association of Penang, Malaysia
Centre for Industrial Safety and Environmental Concerns, Kerala, India
Interchurch Coordination Committee for Development Projects, Zeist, The Netherlands
Mercy Health Services, International, U.S.A.
Rongelap People's Council, Rongelap, Republic of the Marshall Islands
Ontario Hydro Employee's Union, Canada
Science Advisory Board, International Joint Commission of the U. S. and Canada
International Policy Action Committee - Women's Preparatory Committee for UNCED 1992, Beijing 1995
United Nations Conference for Women, NGO Forum, Beijing 1995
Manuscript review, Canadian Medical Assoc. Journal
Judge: Permanent People's Tribunal, Bhopal, India Oct. 1992; Madrid Sept. 1994; London Dec. 1994.
Co-Director: International Medical Commission, Bhopal, India, January 1994
African National Congress, Committee on Science and Technology, March 1994
Preparatory Conference on the International Court on the Environment, Venice, 1995.
Project Warmth for Homeless Street People, Toronto, Canada.
Greater Toronto Clearing House, Toronto, Canada
Advisory Board, Canadian Institute for Environmental Law and Policy, Toronto. Canada
Canadian National Roundtable on the Environment and Economy
Ontario Environmental Assessment Board
New City of Toronto, Task Force on the Environment.
Health Canada, Great Lakes Health Effects Program
Advisor to Scientific Committee of the European Parliament
Advisor to the Permanent People's Tribunal, Rome
ACADEMIC AND PROFESSIONAL HONORS, SCHOLARSHIPS, TRAINEESHIPS
Scholarship (4 years D'Youville), graduated Magna Cum Laude
Kappa Gamma Pi Academic Honour Society
Sigma Xi Scientific Research Honour Society
Graduate Assistantship (Catholic University) for M.A.
National Institute of Health Grant (3 years at Catholic University) for Ph.D.
New York State Dept. of Health, Post Doctorate Summer Research at Roswell Park Memorial Institute in Buffalo, NY USA
Grey Nuns' Legislative Chapter, Elected Delegate 1971, 1974, 1975,1988,1993, and 1998
National Assembly of Women Religious, New York State Delegate: House of Delegates 1973 to 1976; National Executive Board 1977 to 1980
Outstanding Civic Leader of America Award 1970
Reader for Advanced Placement Calculus Examination, Educational Testing, Princeton 1971, 1972
Outstanding Educators of America, Elected 1973
Award, Spring 1981 from National Organization of Women Western New York State Chapter
Award, 1981 from New York Public Interest Research Group
Honorary Member of Aerztebund fuer Umwelt und Lebensschutz (Federation of Physicians for the Protection of Energy and Life) 1983
Hans Adalbert Schweigart Medal, Awarded by the World League for the Protection of Life, Vienna, Austria 1983
Fellow of the Indian Society of Naturalists, Baroda, India 1985
The Right Livelihood Award, December, 1986, Sweden: " FOR RAISING PUBLIC AWARENESS ABOUT THE DESTRUCTION OF THE BIOSPHERE AND HUMAN GENE POOL, ESPECIALLY BY LOW-LEVEL RADIATION"
Distinguished Alumnae Award, Mount St. Joseph Academy, 1987
Women of Distinction Award, YWCA - Toronto, 1987
World Peace Award, World Federalists of Canada 1988
Ontario Premier's Council on Health: Health Innovator Award, 1991
Marguerite D'Youville Humanitarian Award, Grey Nuns of Montreal, Cambridge Massachusetts 1992
United Nations Environmental Programme (UNEP) official recognition for outstanding environmental achievements and Naming to the United Nations Environmental Programme Global 500 Roll of Honour 1993
Honorary Member, Association of Mediterranean Women
Sean MacBride International Peace Prize, International Peace Bureau Geneva, "for scientific testimony from the point of view of the victim" awarded in Helsinki, Finland September 2001
MEMBERSHIP AND COMMITTEES (Partial List)
American Academy of Political and Social Sciences
American Association of University Women
American Public Health Association
Grey Nuns of the Sacred Heart
Institute of Society, Ethics and Life Sciences
International Biometric Society
International League of Women for Peace and Freedom
Kappa Gamma Pi
National Assembly of Women Religious
New York Academy of Science
Pugwash International, Canadian Section
Sigma Xi: Scientific Research Honour Society
Advisory Board Member, Energy Policy Information Institute
Advisory Board Member, Musicians United for Safe Energy
Plenary Member of Health Physics Society
Board of Advisors, Nuclear Reform Project
Board of Advisors, Colorado Atomic and Agent Orange Veterans
Advisory Board, Ecumenical Task Force on the Love Canal, USA
Advisory Board, Lawyers for Social Responsibility, Canada
Board of Directors, Peacework Alternatives, U.S.A.
Food and Water, Inc., Board of Directors, Denville, New Jersey
Board of Advisors, Food Irradiation Alert, Burnaby, BC
Advisory Board Member, Great Lakes Health Effects Program,
Health and Welfare, Canada.
Board of Directors, Global Education Associates, New York
Science Advisory Board, US-Canada International Joint Commission
Environment Task Force, City of Toronto
Nuclear Task Force, US-Canada International Joint Commission
BIOGRAPHICAL PUBLICATIONS (Partial List)
American Catholic Who's Who, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981
American Men and Women of Science, 1976, 1981, 1985
American Men and Women of Science: Consultants, 1977
American Registry Series, 1980 (Selected)
Anglo-American Who's Who, 1981
Community Leaders and Noteworthy Americans, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980
Community Leaders of America, 1982
Dictionary of International Biography, 1977-78, 1978-79, 1979-80, 1980-81
Directories of Distinguished Americans, 1981
International Book of Honour, Second World Edition, 1986
International Who's Who in Community Service, 1978, 1979
International Who's Who of Intellectuals, Vol. II, 1978
International Register of Profiles, 1979
International Register of Biographies, 1986
International Who's Who in Contemporary Achievement, 1985
Men and Women of Distinction, 1979
Notable American, 1976-77, 1978-79
Notable Americans of Bicentennial Era, 1976
Personalities of the Americas, First Commemorative Edition, 1987
Who's Who in American Scientists, 1973-77
Who's Who in American Women, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979-80
Who's Who in Health Care, 1977
Who's Who in the East, 1977-78, 1979-80
World Who's Who of Women 1976, 1977, 1981, 1995
Foremost Women of the Twentieth Century, 1986
Canadian Who's Who, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998.
The International Directory of Distinguished Leadership, 1992
Who's Who in Canadian Women, 1995-2001
"Testing Whether a Multinational Distribution is a Binomial Distribution of Order k" ? Doctoral Thesis ? Un. Microfilm Inc., Ann Arbor, Michigan, 1966
Introduction to Creative Mathematics, (Book) Edwards and Sons, 1971.
"Pets and Adult Leukemia," American Journal of Public Health, co?authored with Dr. Bross and Dr. Gibson, November 1972 (Vol. 62).
Manual for Users, Relative Risk Program, theoretical design for and description of the computer program, 1973, with Chandu Rathod, Department of Biostatistics, Roswell Park Memorial Institute, Buffalo NY USA.
Relative Risks for Combinations of 2x2 Tables, a program for the Monroe 1860 Calculator with L.I. Blumenson, 1973, Department of Biostatistics, R.P.M.I., Buffalo NY USA
Relative Risks When There Are Several Levels of Exposure, a program for the Monroe 1860 Calculator with L.E. Blumenson, April 1973, Department of Biostatistics, R.P.M.I. Buffalo NY USA.
"On an Alternate Method of Calculating and Odds Ratio," Journal of Medicine, Vol. 6, No. 1, 1975.
Theoretical Description of "Sister Test," Fastfortran (Conversational Ver. 4) Program, May 1974, with L.E. Blumenson, Department of Biostatistics, R.P.M.I., Buffalo NY USA.
"Nuclear Suicide," America, Vol. 131, No. 12, 1974.
"You are Needed," Encounter, Vol. 3, 1974.
"Dubious Victory," Baltimore Sun, August 12, 1974.
"Dental X?ray Hazards Held Well Documented," Buffalo Courier Express, October 10, 1974.
"Extensions of the Relative Risk Concept," Experientia, Vol. 131, January 1975.
"Nuclear Hazards," Feb. 1975 Nuclear Decisions.
"Citizen Action Recommended," Nuclear Opponents, Allendale, New Jersey, March?April 1975, pg. 1.
"The Equal Rights Amendment," Western New York Catholic, feature article, April 24, 1975.
"Recapping Renewal," Probe, April, 1975.
"More About Nuclear Suicide," Nuclear Opponents, Allendale, New Jersey, May?June 1975.
"Scientists question some PP&L Claims." Letter to the Editor, Harrisburg Evening News, May 16, 1975.
Written testimony on the hazards of low level radiation. House of Representatives, Committee on Energy and the Environment, Subcommittee of the House Interior Committee. Rep. Morris Udall, Chairman, August 6. 1975.
"Children of the Lord," Contemplative Review, November 1975.
"Health Effects from Nuclear Exposure," feature article, The Providence Journal, Providence, Rhode Island, June 16, 1976.
Testimony in a Congressional Seminar on Low Level Ionizing Radiation, Subcommittee on Energy and the Environment of the Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs, House of Representatives, May 4, 1976. U.S. Government Printing Office, 79?7670.
Testimony, July 7, 1976. Mines and Energy Management Committee. House of Representatives. Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
"Biohazards of Nuclear Generators," Special International Nuclear Opponents for the Observance of the Anniversary of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Nuclear Opponents, November 1976.
"Spirit Begets Spirit," Contemplative Review, November 1976.
X?ray Exposure and Premature Aging. Journal of Surgical Oncology, Vol. 9, Issue 4, 1977.
Some Ethical problems involved in nuclear proliferation. Probe, February 1977.
Nuclear power and human fragility. Nuclear Opponents, March 30, 1977.
Health Hazards from Low Level Radiation. Peace Newsletter, Syracuse Peace Council. April 1977, SPC 730.
Nuclear Power and Civil Rights in the United States. The Centerpiece. Buffalo Justice Center, January 1978.
Hard Questions ? Honest Answers. The Catholic New Times, Toronto, Ontario. February 26, 1978.
Measurable Health Effects of Diagnostic X?ray Exposure. Testimony before the Subcommittee on Health and the Environment of the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce, U.S. House of Representatives, July 11, 1978. Vol. 2. Effect of Radiation on Human Health. Serial Number 95?180.
The Ethical Problems Involved in Nuclear Generation of Electricity. An invited address delivered at the Energy Symposium, May 13,1978, sponsored by the Irish Transport and General Workers Union in Dublin, Ireland. Published in "A Nuclear Ireland?", Dublin, 1979.
Health Hazards Involved in the Production, Storage and Use of Nuclear Weapons. Invited address, Japan International Congress Against A and H Bombs. Osaka, Japan, August 1978. Published in Congress Proceedings, 1979.
Part 16 and Part 17, CBS?TV Summer Session: Alternative Futures (29 minutes each), June 1978. Video Tapes available from Global Education Associates, 552 Park Avenue, East Orange, N.J. 07017.
Energy and Health. Article in the Social Costs of Energy Choices, a special issue of Christianity and Crisis, Vol. 38, no. 15, October 15, 1978.
Testimony Relative to Human Health and Nuclear Generation of Electricity. Discussion Texts, International Study Days for a Society Overcoming Domination, September 1978, d24.
The Nuclear Crossroads, Environmental Action Reprint Service, Box 545, La Veta, Co. 81055, April 29, 1978. Also published in: "A Nuclear Ireland?" Editors: J.F. Carroll and P.K. Kelly, Published by Irish Transport and General Workers Union.
The Nuclear Worker and Ionizing Radiation. American Industrial Hygiene Association Journal, (40), May 1979.
New Structures for Growth. Invited address, World Future Studies Conference: Science and Technology and the Future. Berlin, East Germany. May 8 ? 10, 1979.
Children in the Nuclear Age. Part 24, Children in the World television series. Video tapes available form the Canadian Save the Children Fund, 111 ? 115th Street East, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan S7N 2E1.
Radiation Kills. Article in Special Uranium Report. Published by the Energy File and the British Columbia Conference of the United Church of Canada, 105?2511 East Hastings, Vancouver, B.C. September 1979.
Comment on the Interagency Task Force on Low?Level Ionizing Radiation Report (directed to F. Peter Libassi, Chairman, Interagency Task Force on the Health Effects of Ionizing Radiation). Published in: Public Comments on the Work Group Reports. DHEW, June 1979.
Expert testimony before the Select Committee on Uranium Resources, Legislative Council, Parliament House, Adelaide, South Australia. March 11, 1980.
Spring (a poem). Contemplative Review, Spring Issue 1980.
Het Grie Staten Onderzock, IMGo Regionale Ontwikkeling, Middleburg 1980, the Netherlands.
Radiation Exposure and Human Species Survival. Environmental Health Review. Vol. 25 No. 2 (1981).
Peaceful Atom Myth Blown Up. Catholic New Times, July 5, 1981 p. 4 (Toronto) .
Response of Rosalie Bertell to the Critique of Michael Ginevan. Health Physics. Vol. 41 No. 2 p. 419?422 (1981).
Letter to the Editor ? "Physicians rally against the threat of nuclear epidemic" CMA Journal, September 15, 1981. Vol 125.
Women are Refusing to Bear Children. Catholic New Times, November 22, 1981. P. 3.
Nuclear Power and Nuclear Weapon Production are Health Issues. Proceedings of Medical Association for Prevention of War, Vol 3 Part 6, Autumn 1981 (England).
Health Hazards of Video Display Terminals, Environmental Health Review, Vol. 26, no. 1 (1982) pp. 3 ? 5.
Risikooientierte analyse zum SNR?300, C.IV, Institute fur Energie und Umwelrforschung, Heildelberg e.v., August 1982, Table 2 ? 4, page 2034, R. Bertell, September 1982.
Response of Rosalie Bertell to critique of Kelly Clifton Environmental Health Review, Vol. 26, no. 2 (1982) pp. 47 - 48.
Demonstration Show a New Consciousness. Catholic New Times, June 27, 1982, p. 9 (Toronto).
Risks expected from Radiation Exposure of Workers of Light?Water Power Reactors (co?authored with Ikuro Anzai). Journal of Japanese Scientists. Vol. 18, no. 2 (1983).
Crimes Against Life and Death. Speech given at Tribunal Against First Strike and Mass Destruction Weapons in East and West, Nurenberg, West Germany, February 1983. Published in Proceedings. Also published as: "Early War Crimes of WW III", Breakthrough, Fall 1983.
Are Video Display Terminals Safe? Environmental health Review Vol. 27, no. 1 (1983) pp. 18 ? 20. 1.
Genetic and Terategenic Effects of Ionizing Radiation, R. Bertell in: Oko?Institute, Ananytische Weiterentwicklung zur Duetschen Risikostudie Kernkraftwerke, Freiburg 1983.
Reflections on the Bishop's Pastoral on Nuclear War. Probe (National Assembly of Women Religious) Vol XI, no. 8 June ? July 1983.
"Unholy Secrets: The impact of the nuclear age on public health." Chapter 3, in Reclaim the Earth, Leonie Caldecott and Stephanie Leland, editors. The Women's Press, London, (1983) pp. 20?33.
"A Micronesian Woman" (a Poem) in Reclaim the Earth, Leonie Caldecott and Stephanie Leland, editors. The Women's Press, London (1983) p. 111.
"Auswirkungen einer atombombenexplosion auf die menschlichen Gene" in Labt uns die Kraniche suchen, Petra Kelly, editor, Werkhaus (1983) pp. 118 ? 120.
"Passioned Stillness" (a poem) Sister's Today, Vol. 55, no. 2, October 1983, p. 99.
Keynote Speech on Pacific Nuclearization. "Health Effects of Ionizing Radiation". From: Proceedings of the Nuclear Free and Independent Pacific Conference. Villa, Vanuatu 1983.
"Early War Crimes of W.W. III". Whole Earth Papers. No. 19, Global Education Associates. Fall 1983.
"The Health of the Oceans". BREAKTHROUGH, Global Education Associates Newsletter. Vol. 5, No. 4., Summer, 1984.
"Peace Making and the Gifts of Women". Ecumenism. No. 75. Sept. 1984.
Handbook for Estimating Health Effects from Exposure to Ionizing Radiation. Compiled by Rosalie Bertell, Ph.D., Published and distributed by International Institute of Concern for Public Health, Buffalo; International Radiation Research and Training Institute, Birmingham, England. First Edition 1984; Second Edition 1986.
"Current Challenges to the Christian as Scientist", Canadian Catholic Review December 1984.
No Immediate Danger ? Prognosis for a Radioactive Earth. The Women's Press, London, England, 1985. Also published in Canada, the U.S., Australia, India and New Zealand.
"Scientific Information Suppressed". Index on Censorship. Vol. 14 No. 5 October 1985.
Swedish translation of No Immediate Danger, Symposion Bokforlag and Tryckeri AB, Stockholm/Lund 1986.
German translation of No Immediate Danger, Goldmann Verlag, Munchen, F.R.G. 1987.
Japanese translation of Handbook for Estimating Health Effects from Exposure to Ionizing Radiation, Gijutsu to Ningen Publishing Co., 1987.
French translation of No Immediate Danger, Les Editions de la Pleine Lune, Montreal, 1988 and CQFDL, St.?Thibault?des?Vignes, France 1988.
Estimate of Uranium and Nuclear Radiation Casualties Attributable to Activities Since 1945, Medicine and War, Vol. 4. 27 ? 36 (1988).
Health is a Human Right, 1988 Yearbook, International Commission of Health Professionals, Geneva.
The Real Meaning of Health Care, Breakthrough, Fall '87/Spring '88 pp.64?65.
A World on the Verge of Maturity, Journal of Religion and the Applied Behavioural Sciences, Summer 1987, pp.5?8.
"Radiation and Health Issues in the Nuclear Age", in Challenge to Nuclear Waste, Ed. Anne Wieser, Proceedings of the Nuclear Waste Issues Conference, Sept. 12?14, 1986. pp. 73?81, 1987.
Love the Earth (a poem), Published in Frauen & Okologie, Kolner Volksblatt Verlag, F.R.G., 1987.
Protect us from the Protectors, Published in Alternatives, Volume 16, No. 4/Vol.17 No. 1 1990.
Destruction of the Environment, A Living Biosphere, Chapter 9, in "Horrendous Death, Health and Well Being". Ed. Dr. Dan Leviton, University of Maryland, pp.177?190. Hemisphere Publ. Corp. New York 1991.
No Immediate danger? Prognosis for a Radioactive Earth, in Women and Sustainable Development: a report from Women's Forum in Bergen, Norway, 14?15 May 1990, Published by Center for Information on Women and Development, Oslo, Norway, 1990, pp. 18?21.
Nucleogenic Illness, in Replenishing the Earth, The Right Livelihood Awards 1986?89, Ed. Tom Woodhouse, Green Books, Devon, England, 1990, pp. 209?215.
Women in the International Arena. First World Summit. "Women and the Many Dimensions of Power" June 3?8, 1990, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
Radioactivity: No Immediate Danger? Ms. Magazine, The World of Women, Volume II, Number 2, Page 27, September/October 1991.
Chernobyl ? April 1991, Environmental Health Review Vol. 35, No. 3 Fall 1991.
A Conversation with Rosalie Bertell, Proceedings World YWCA, Stavanger, Norway June 1991.
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Breast Cancer and Mammography, Mothering, No. 64, Summer 1992.
Foreword to the book: One World One Earth, February 1992.
Paper delivered at the Student Pugwash Meeting, Pugwash NS Canada. August 29, 1992 in
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but you may have lingering favorable views of the US Military that may explain why all your posts are so dismissive.
"That is not the case. I would like to get away from a pattern where you give me a source, I analyze the source, and then instead of discussing the analysis the argument focuses on how "I only trust the government" or how my service in the military might indicate a pro-military bias on my part."
Try analysing the source on WHAT THEY ARE SAYING rather than trying to dismiss them as "unqualified" to be saying it.
"Obviously I wasn't that fond of the military or I'd still be part of it."
If you're not a part of it, what do you do now?
Many, many intelligence operatives claim to no longer be operatives .... John Stockwell, for example, pretends to have cut his ties and yet he goes about lecturing at Universities regarding the necessity of the CIA and similar institutions to exist.
"It did provide me a way to go to college though, and at the age of 17 I had no political or personal reasons for not joining."
You went directly from high-school (or college) into intelligence? Don't you have to be a regular soldier first? What do you do now - it would help in understanding your bias. Being a not-anonymous person, my bias is out there for all to see. Unlike myself, no one here knows where you are coming from.
"My point of mentioning my service at all is this: It would be easy for me to set up a page about the secret weapon capabilities of HAARP, and then in my bio write about how I was a veteran of Military Intelligence for a number of years. How I had a SECRET security clearance and worked on classified electromagnetic wave detection equipment as well as secret seismic equipment."
If you're arguing that Rosalie Bertell is bullshitting and fronting using her limited science background to do so, you're not convincing me one bit.
"All of that is above is true, but it doesn't mean I know diddly about HAARP. I can certainly make myself sound like an expert on the matter, and probably fool a lot of people in to believing I'm some sort of expert by using my real credentials. That's one reason sources have to be carefully scrutinized; to make sure the person making the claim has the knowledge to back it up."
If you tried (and lied about HAARP), there would be plenty of people around to call Bullshit. Show me where Rosalie Bertell has been "debunked" and your argument may hold some weight. Otherwise, it is you who are bullshitting.