|
17 registered (2Ca3sper9, bease, DANKNUG, 7 invisible),
80
Guests and
15
Spiders online. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
22335 Members
56 Forums
179284 Topics
1574887 Posts
Max Online: 1054 @ 07/29/08 07:31 AM
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
|
29
|
30
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#253047 - 05/18/02 05:54 AM
New Dutch politics and coffeeshops.
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Pressmessage :
The new Dutch government and the possible consequences for the coffeeshop system.
What will happen to the Dutch coffeeshops under the new government, will these right-winged people shut all cannabis coffeeshops in Holland ?
That is about the general content of a question I get asked over and over again, the last few days, through my website and by phone, by press and worried cannabis tourists.
I think I have the answers and the arguments to prove this press created hype is just a hype, as a Dutchman with an interest in our national politics, and as a so-called ‘coffeeshopkeeper’, offering and selling marihuana and hash through my three registered cannabisshops in Haarlem, the Netherlands.
To start with the facts:
The CDA, Hollands biggest political party after the elections, are the only party against the coffeeshopsystem in the Netherlands, they now have 43 out of the available 150 seats in the Dutch parliament.In order to form a government, they need at least two other parties to create a coalition that can govern the country. The best possible partners for the CDA, a conservative catholic party, absolutely non-racist, are the newly risen LPF, List Pim Fortuyn, or LIST (26 seats), and the VVD (24 seats). Together, this coalition would have 93 seats, enough for the required majority in parliament.
The LPF and its recently assasinated leader, Pim Fortuyn, have been portrayed as extremely right-winged, by national and international press. This is far from the truth, Pim Fortuyn was an openly gay person, who made very blunt statements about his solutions for Holland, and especially about the immigrant problem. The LIST’s second in command is a coloured man, Varela, and there are more cultures represented in the party, they were completey in line with Fortuyn’s political view. Pim Fortuyn had a view on coffeeshops too, he saw no problem in them, as long as they pay taxes, and admitted he smoked occasionally after this statement.
The VVD, who are not really keen on being in the new government, have been part of the Purple coalition for the last 8 years, when they were in charge of the parliament. During this period they created and maintained the coffeeshoppolicy as it is still in use today. I do not see how they can change their stance overnight, IF they decide to take part in the CDA’s most wanted possibility.
Hollands drugspolicy is well known throughout the world, and had a load of criticism over the last decades, especially from the USA and France, but managed to withstand the international pressure. Results and figures have proven the Dutch policy right, the Netherlands still have drugproblems, but they have been succesfully contained and regulated. This resulted in the ‘Dutch system’ to be the best possible way to go about with drugs and its users, focussed on the separation of softdrugs (cannabis) and harddrugs (heroin, cocain, etc.). This separation was meant to keep young people, experimenting with cannabis, away from the users of harddrugs, by allowing the sales of cannabis from registerd outlets, the so-called coffeeshops.
Even the CDA will not be serious about closing the cannabisshops, as I prefer to call them, the international press make us believe they will. The reasons for not closing the cannabisshops are numerous, I will mention the most important arguments for maintaining or improving the current policy on cannabis.
Closing all cannabisshops would eventually lead to ending all other experiments with drugs, like the needle exchange and the succesfull distribution of free heroin to registered problematic harddrugsusers. This alone would lead to a rapid comeback of pity crime in the streets of the Netherlands, wich has been succesfully reduced by the Methadon/free heroin program, over the last few years.
Closing all cannabisshops would mean that cannabis would get back in the hands of those dealing in all drugs, resurrecting the dismantled stepping stone theory, being realised by shoving soft- and harddrugs back together in one corner.
Closing all cannabisshops would also bring back organised crime in the cannabis culture, as they will be the alternative to feed the demand for any drug on the market. Cannabisshops are supplied by homegrowers, on a basis of mutual confidence and trust, their input is about 75 % of all cannabis in Dutch cannabisshops. Homegrown cannabis has excluded organised crime from the supply line to cannabisshops, foreign hash lost its 95 % marketshare over the last decade !
Closing all cannabisshops is practically impossible, all Dutch cannabisoutlets are registered leisure companies, with a permit to sell drinks and snacks. No government can close the businesses as such, they can only try to forbid to sell cannabis from them. That would cause a problem for the authorities, because the cannabisshops would go back to the old-fashioned way of ‘dealing’, through a person on a table in the place, who has no connection with the business, when asked. That was the way it was done before the so-called cannabismenu’s were introduced, and that is the way that will always work. It would mean that cannabisshops would not be able to pay tax anymore, as the income from cannabis can no longer be booked in, it would incriminate the entrepeneur. It would take at least two police officers per coffeeshop, per day, to try and prevent the sales of cannabis from cannabisshops, with a police force that has a chronic shortage of police officers already.
Aiming to close all cannabisshops is going back to the jungle, as the trade in drugs on the street is called, and would ruin all previous efforts made to shape and execute the Drugpolicy as it is today. The Netherlands have the best results in regulating drugs by far, mainly because the use of drugs do not resort under the Justice Department, only the trade in drugs is their responsibility. The use and abuse of drugs are the responsibility of our Health Department, their taking part in the Drugpolicy is meant to protect the health of the druguser, by offering help and support, in finding or creating a solution for the intended user’s drugproblem.
Balkenende, the leader of the CDA, and probably our new Prime Minister, has stated he wants to end the ‘tolerance culture’ in Holland, and mentioned the coffeeshops and illegal immigrants in ‘black’ labour as examples. He never stated he wants to close the Dutch cannabisshops, that is what the press distilled from his words.
Ending the ‘tolerance status’ for cannabisshops could mean two possible solutions :
The first one is the doom scenario the press is creating, the new Dutch government close all cannabisshops, period.
They would have to have good reasons for that, a ‘tolerance staus’ is meant to experiment with something that is actually illegal, but so commonly done, that upholding the Law on such a situation would be practically impossible. Prostitution was tolerated for 65 years !, before it was fully legalised a few years ago, no political party ever tried to forbid prostitution, they always tried to find the best possible way to regulate the flow of commercial sex and the connecting industry.
If the last 28 years of allowing the small sales of cannabis from registered outlets have been an experimental phase, it is about time to end the ‘tolerance status’, and to act after the outcome of the results of the long-running experiment. Cannabisshops do not mean any harm to Dutch society, on the contrary, they succesfully separate the two markets, cannabissales only, no harddrugs on the premises. The figures are in favour of cannabisshops, not against them, as many people seem to think, especially compared to all alcohol outlets in the Netherlands, there is no violence whatsoever in cannabisshops. If the new government does want to end the ‘tolerance status’ for coffeeshops, they can only go for full legalisation, and it would comply with Balkenende’s wish, no more tolerance ! The stance of the murdered Pim Fortuyn, the founder of the LIST (LPF), on cannabisshops was very clear, he had no problems with them, if only they pay their taxes…. All Dutch cannabisshops pay taxes and all businessrates, they employ a lot of staff, thusway contributing to the Dutch society, as any other business.
Ending the tolerance system for cannabisshops can only lead to legalisation, not to the enforced closure of the businesses, there is no legal nor social reason for that, unless Balkenende wants to ruin the best administrated Drugpolicy in the world.
Cannabis entrepreneurs are used to working in a grey area, any adjustment will be made to keep cannabis available through cannabisshops, no matter what it takes.
Nol van Schaik, www.globalhempmuseum.nl www.williewortel.org www.dutchexperience.org
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#253048 - 05/18/02 10:55 PM
Re: New Dutch politics and coffeeshops.
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Thanks for passing that along Nol! It's funny how the media here likes to put their own slant on everything. I saw about that on msnbc and was wondering about it. I didn't figure they could do it. I've never been to Holland though I'd like to some day. If I do, I want to stay in Haarlem and visit Willie Wortels. I'd also like to check out Grey Area in Amsterdam. Do you know those guys? I'd like to get some seeds from them. Keep up the freedom fighting. It's good knowing we got guys like you and Marc and everyone else at the frontline paving the way towards personal freedom.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#253049 - 05/19/02 11:05 AM
Re: New Dutch politics and coffeeshops.
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Hello to Nol Von Schaik, I read about you much in the magazine, you have done very much work that is good and I cheer that.
However your statemtns of "facts" about the situation in Netherlands is problem. I have questions for you. 1. You are saying that the media is not saying what is right in what they are saying about what is going to happen, but then how do you know different? How you know more than the media?. I do not know maybe you are in touch with the cda and the ldf, and you know the insider story, but how do you know what they really think or intend unless it is through the media which you condem? You think that the Catholics are non racist? that is a joke. They helped Hitler in WW 2 and they continue to have child molesting and other policies that are bad.
2. iI the new PM did not want to hurt the system, why did he say that he did?
3. Do you want the soft drugs to be totally legalized when then anybody can grown them so they don't have to buy them from you or do you want only decriminalization so that you can still make a lot off them? How would you be in business if everyb ody can grow their own?
4. You say that the cannabis shops have not mean any harm to the Netherlands society but the government says that your shops promote abuse and dependence on cannabis and that this is a big problem espcilally for younger people. Yes I agree that your shops keep the hard drugs seperate but they do encourage the use of cannabis and that is a drug that can hurt people too, Do you disagree?
5,. You are making a lot of money off of the drugs trade. Compare yourself to Mark Emery, are you giving it all away like he does or are you to get rich? I know some people in the bigger city who own the cofee shops and all they care about is the money. How much do you make and what amount of it do you give away likke Emery does?.
6. How much of the weed in your shops is organic? I think that too much of your Dutch weed is chemical indoors. It is too much Indic`a and hard to keep lit because of al the chem. What do you think?
7. Why should anybody believe your beliefs about the new government situations any more than they would believe anybody elses?
8. You slag on the media but from what I see you are in the media al the time to make yourself more money isnt that hypocritical?
I am glad to hear from you about this. I think you are a big worker and I like reading of you but unless you are a politician yourself or a political degree holder, I don't think you know all the facts either, Mr. Von Schaik. Stick with running your shops.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#253050 - 05/19/02 12:18 PM
Re: New Dutch politics and coffeeshops.
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Is that you again, P, posting anonymous... ?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#253051 - 05/19/02 12:34 PM
To Cannastraat...
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
That is odd, just registered and already a lot of indeep questions...
I recognise the way of going about, and the way of writing, besides the fine spelling...
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#253052 - 05/19/02 01:14 PM
your answers, newbie...
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Hello to Nol Von Schaik, I read about you much in the magazine, you have done very much work that is good and I cheer that.
However your statemtns of "facts" about the situation in Netherlands is problem. I have questions for you. 1. You are saying that the media is not saying what is right in what they are saying about what is going to happen, but then how do you know different? How you know more than the media?. I do not know maybe you are in touch with the cda and the ldf, and you know the insider story, but how do you know what they really think or intend unless it is through the media which you condem? You think that the Catholics are non racist? that is a joke. They helped Hitler in WW 2 and they continue to have child molesting and other policies that are bad.
1/A :Where were you when all the news came out, down under, or something ?? The CDA, LPF and all other parties in our elections, had their say on national TV, for free, ALL of them, no sponsors neede to buy coverage, that is Dutch democracy. I do not know more than any Dutch person, who watched the news on a daily basis. The media printed things that were not said, the just make it sound better for them, sensation sells… I have seen and heard the media, and I voted, D66, so I think I know what has been said before the elections, on Dutch national tv, did you ?? Dutch catholics are not racist, we live in Holland, not in Northern Ireland. What have H. and WW2 got to do with Dutch coffeeshops, I am not a catholic, but I have never been bothered by one… I do not know anything about the sexual habist of catholics at all, nor their policy.
2. iI the new PM did not want to hurt the system, why did he say that he did?
2/A : We do not have a new PM yet, if you mean Balkenende, he had to say that he will move against the coffeeshop tolerance satus, his party has ‘zero-tolerance’ as a stance for a decade already, what else could he have said, to try and win the elections ?
3. Do you want the soft drugs to be totally legalized when then anybody can grown them so they don't have to buy them from you or do you want only decriminalization so that you can still make a lot off them? How would you be in business if everyb ody can grow their own?
3/A : You seem to know me… I want full legalisation of coffeeshops, and I do not care if anybody can grow, they already do, if they have the room for it. I will still make my money of the coffeeshops, you know that… My business would lose turnover, if everybody would grow his/her own, but I think most people will just keep buying it.
4. You say that the cannabis shops have not mean any harm to the Netherlands society but the government says that your shops promote abuse and dependence on cannabis and that this is a big problem espcilally for younger people. Yes I agree that your shops keep the hard drugs seperate but they do encourage the use of cannabis and that is a drug that can hurt people too, Do you disagree?
4/A : My government does not visit my shops, they just respond to what they read in the newspapers. If you compare the Dutch society on dope to the countries around us, we have the best possible drugfigures, all around, were is the harm done? Cannabis can hurt people, if you hit them over the head with a kilo of hash !
5,. You are making a lot of money off of the drugs trade. Compare yourself to Mark Emery, are you giving it all away like he does or are you to get rich? I know some people in the bigger city who own the cofee shops and all they care about is the money. How much do you make and what amount of it do you give away likke Emery does?.
5/A : I make a good living, out of selling softdrugs and softdrinks, and I can pay all my staff in time, that is true. I would not want to compare myself to Marc Emery, why ? I would like to get rich, like Mr. Emery, but I booze and gamble all my money away in the casino, night after night… Mr. Emery seems to live like a munk, I wish I could… I make more money than the Mayor, the gambling and my alcoholproblem keep me from giving any away…
6. How much of the weed in your shops is organic? I think that too much of your Dutch weed is chemical indoors. It is too much Indic`a and hard to keep lit because of al the chem. What do you think?
6/ A : You make it look like I supply all 900+ coffeeshops in Holland, I do not. You are right, too much of the Dutch weed is chemical indoors, the sun don’t shine for us that much, and a lot of growers do not flush in time.
7. Why should anybody believe your beliefs about the new government situations any more than they would believe anybody elses?
7/ A : I think I know, I lived here 47 years now, and I take an interest, plus, I read all Dutch and International newspapers. I do not ask anybody to believe me, I am just stating the way I see it.
8. You slag on the media but from what I see you are in the media al the time to make yourself more money isnt that hypocritical?
8/ A : What would the media do without things and persons to cover… Are you a press person, you make me think you were personally attacked, did you lie about the Dutch situation too ? How do I make more money out of the media, I do not charge them for interviewing me, nor do I ask them to state my adresses.
I am glad to hear from you about this. I think you are a big worker and I like reading of you but unless you are a politician yourself or a political degree holder, I don't think you know all the facts either, Mr. Von Schaik. Stick with running your shops.
Comment : I think you should realise that I know who you are, Cannastraat, I do not think much of your way of getting your revenge…
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#253054 - 05/19/02 01:33 PM
Re: New Dutch politics and coffeeshops.
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Even so, I appreciated the reasoned responses. Nice that this didnt decent into a flame war like so many other boards would have. Please continue to post your insights =).
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#253055 - 05/19/02 01:42 PM
Addition to Answer 4
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
4. You say that the cannabis shops have not mean any harm to the Netherlands society but the government says that your shops promote abuse and dependence on cannabis and that this is a big problem espcilally for younger people. Yes I agree that your shops keep the hard drugs seperate but they do encourage the use of cannabis and that is a drug that can hurt people too, Do you disagree?
As you should know, being so well informed, the minimum age to enter a coffeeshop in Holland is 18, younger people are not allowed in, unfortunately. Younger people have to rely on the supply from the Jungle....
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#253056 - 05/19/02 04:37 PM
Re: Addition to Answer 4
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Sounds like a Dutch political argument that might be going on, somewhere as they scramble to form that coalition government.
Here's hoping the new coalition sees the common sense in Cannabis.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: BongPixie, CaliGrower, chrisbennett, Dana Larsen, FranCouver, Fred_the_Plumber, frmrgrl, goodster, jacob, JodieGR, Marc Scott Emery, MICHY, OCNORML, puff_tuff, Rudy, stinkweed, voodoodol
|