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#1752584 - 08/31/12 10:48 AM Re: first time organic coming soon [Re: jetski]
Organic Gardener Offline

Organinerd
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Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 4619
Loc: Cannafornia
Which part confused you? The "as someone who despises bottled crap (nutes), there is no "magical" formulation for cannabis." . . .? If you think cannabis has some magical formulation for nutrients you're silly bro. I've taught a couple members on here about organics using the same basic baseline Fera is going to use and they've all had nothing but success. They've of course tweeked it/made it stronger for their needs. I steer people away from the more expensive bottled "organic" nutes since it's just the same raw ingredients they're going to use.

Originally Posted By: jetski
Getting the correct balance and ratio of the ingredients you mention is not easy


Yes it is!

edit: sorry jet, if you meant the last part of my comment the "considering the source of the comment." bit. that wasn't aimed at you.
_________________________
KISS Cloning Guide

Organic Grow Guide by OG

Organics - Growing on cruise control.

Organic Mafia - Cali Division


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#1752599 - 08/31/12 12:26 PM Re: first time organic coming soon [Re: Organic Gardener ]
kenny_canuck Offline
Pooh-Bah
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Registered: 11/02/06
Posts: 1906
Loc: In Nanna Bijou's Shadow
just switched over to subcool's super-soil recipe. however it did take me quite a bit of searching online to secure accurate dilution rates for smaller batches. i'm using his most recent recipe.

previously I was sunshine#4 to which i added extra perlite and vermiculite, bone meal then into 2 gal pots, ( i veg under CFL's) scrog under 400W HPS and AN Mother Earth grow and bloom teas at half strength (or less depending on the varity's sensitivity) and I would top dress the pots with kelp and every other watering bucket i would switch to water and molassas only.

so i will now go up to 3 gal pots, the bottom one-third to be super-soil, will stay with my soil mix for veg in 2 gal pots, then transplant into the 3 gals and forced into flower at appropriate time.

i typically harvest 2.0-2.5oz/plant/cycle,in three 2 gal pots/cycle; typically harvest about 1.0oz dried leaf and shake per plant with which I make my medibles.

i am hoping to improve the overall quality aiming for:
improved yield (planter size); flavours: in the bag, the bong and the brews.

on 08/23/12 i germed 4xOPK bagseed I got from LEFTY. These are very vigorous, showing purple stems in their 1.0L pots, root-tips just starting to show out the bottoms: good progress for 8 days. these will go into their 2 gal pots this weekend and will continue under CFL's. they will be topped at 5th node and will be about 12" tall in 30days. then i will move them to 3 gals, top them again and moved to flower cab. my 12/12 cycles usually run about 60-75 days.

i have been recycling my previous soil mix using three equal parts: used soil, compost, fresh soil mix with satisfactory and predictable results.

i need to simplify my grow so ganga granny can operate this when i'm gone. she can follow a recipe to a tee so mixing super soil will be a snap for her.

I will chime in with results as they develop. good luck with your OG too!
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FREE THE SEED TO MEET THE NEED.

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#1752624 - 08/31/12 05:16 PM Re: first time organic coming soon [Re: kenny_canuck]
GBuds Offline
Veteran
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Registered: 09/15/10
Posts: 1256
Loc: Beggar's Tomb
Fera, your mix is simple and will work fine. I happen to think that FF is way too expensive, but it works great when ammended. It certainly needs more perlite as you have planned for. I also like to mix my own soil. I read that you have spoken to some organic members here, but I wonder if you have been spending some time in the organic forum. A great mix grows great weed. Understanding the mix makes the grower great.
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#1752746 - 09/02/12 07:20 AM Re: first time organic coming soon [Re: Fera Braba]
Steve Offline
Old hand
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Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 833
Loc: A/O X3
This looks like a great plan. I've never used Happy Frog, but if it's anything like Ocean Forest, it's really good stuff.
I would only suggest cutting back on the High N bat guano to 1T (in a 2 gal pot, right?)
I don't think 2T is gonna cause problems, I'm just a minimalist when it comes to fertilizer, especially N from multiple sources.
It's ALWAYS easier to add more than it is to get rid of too much. Especially with solid organics.
High N guano usually has a double digit N number and to be honest, the worm castings probably supply all the N the plant needs. If they need a quick dose of N, worm or guano tea is amazing.

You will find that having a root substrate which is teeming with microlife will make a little bit of food go a very long way. Learn to feed the soil, and you'll have to feed the plant less often.

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#1752752 - 09/02/12 07:57 AM Re: first time organic coming soon [Re: Steve]
Fera Braba Offline
Stoner
***

Registered: 02/14/12
Posts: 405
Loc: ur moms asshole
hey steve i completely agree with you about it being easier to add more than to take it out, now my ratios i posted were these

2Cups EWC (earthworm casting)
1-2T high nitrogen Bat guano
1-2T kelp meal
1-2t high phosphorous guano
earth juices myco powder
and 25% perlite.

i was using that per gallon of soil, so i was gunna double it for the 2 gallon pot, or do you think that its overkill?? this first grow i dont wanna have to mess with teas too much, i wanna get my watering schedule down pat, and just learn to read my plants a little more. im worried i could fuck up the teas, and being in an apartment, fucking up a tea could be a VERY STINKY problem for awhile lol. i was only going to water with distilled water once or twice a week (hence one of the other reasons to go organic, thats easy as shit) i do have a question about molasses tho. i read alot about people mixing it in with their water for the plant, how often do i do that, or is it even needed? another question i had was the Tea schedule, if i decide to do them on this one. was told this schedule by another reputable organic guy on here

1: every transplant plants get tea. I keep mother plants and clone off of them. (if you put your autos in their forever home it'll just be that first one)
2: halfway through veg (I veg 3-4 weeks on average)
3: beginning of flower
4: half-way through flower after I've topdressed to get the beneficials breaking that fertilizer down right away.

what do you think sir? sorry im asking so many questions, i jsut wanna be the best prepared i can be for this total change in my system. KEEP THE ANSWERS COMING!
_________________________
Ill stand up and fight until i get back what is mine.

Fera Braba

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#1752759 - 09/02/12 08:40 AM Re: first time organic coming soon [Re: Fera Braba]
Doobie_Brother Offline
Ganja God
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Registered: 08/24/10
Posts: 5084
Loc: The G.W.N.
Just want to mention that I am one of OG's converts/students. Made the jump to organics with his help, and I can say my grows have never looked better, taste has improved a hundred-fold, and frankly growing organically is far less work. I no longer worry about pH, nute burning, deficiencies and other problems associated with using chems.

Fera, you can't go wrong with that recipe. Adding a tea now and then will boost growth like crazy smile

A BIG thanks to OG for his help.
_________________________
Many people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm terrified of widths.


Fiat Lux!

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#1752770 - 09/02/12 10:18 AM Re: first time organic coming soon [Re: Fera Braba]
Steve Offline
Old hand
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Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 833
Loc: A/O X3
Please don't think I'm dis-ing OG's recommendations. Nuttin but respect in that vein. I'm only relating what I have observed and experienced. I used 2T of high N bat guano (11-4-1) per gallon of medium for years and never experienced nute burn. What I did note was that over time, the plants consistently developed the eagle claw leaf deformity associated with over fertilization. Cutting back on the guano helped. I now use alfalfa meal (2-6-1). Double digit NPKs are unnecessary and even problematic in my experience.

Everything we do has consequences, and the consequences of not enough slow release N means applying quick release nutrients in the form of tea.

You aren't likely to screw up a tea. It's as simple as putting a quarter cup of compost, worm compost, guano, or a combination of them all into a gallon of water and letting it brew for a few days. Bubbling is not necessary, our grandparents and their grandparents before them all brewed non-aerated (fermented) teas to feed their gardens, and they grew just fine.

There are a couple ways to do it....Often, I just put the organic material in a gallon milk jug, fill it with water, cap it and shake it up real well. Then uncap it and let it sit. Agitate it a few times each day, and let it brew for 2-4 days. Dilute it 1:1 with plain water and apply. No nasty odors.

Molasses - good stuff. Blackstrap is best. Mostly it feeds the microorganisms which make the existing nutrients more available to the plant. So indirectly, it boosts plant growth. A couple T per gallon of water. It also imparts some sweetness to the cured bud. I use molasses at transplant and every few weeks.
...the kelp meal in your medium is doing the same sort of thing (feeding the microherd) as well as providing natural growth regulators...

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#1752863 - 09/03/12 04:45 PM Re: first time organic coming soon [Re: Steve]
Fera Braba Offline
Stoner
***

Registered: 02/14/12
Posts: 405
Loc: ur moms asshole
awesome, i dont think i can fuck this up with all you guys helping me out so much, i really appreciate it. now i jstu have to gather the supplies!
_________________________
Ill stand up and fight until i get back what is mine.

Fera Braba

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#1752960 - 09/04/12 11:36 PM Re: first time organic coming soon [Re: Steve]
PurpleHaze Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 239
Loc: BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: Steve
Please don't think I'm dis-ing OG's recommendations. Nuttin but respect in that vein. I'm only relating what I have observed and experienced. I used 2T of high N bat guano (11-4-1) per gallon of medium for years and never experienced nute burn. What I did note was that over time, the plants consistently developed the eagle claw leaf deformity associated with over fertilization. Cutting back on the guano helped. I now use alfalfa meal (2-6-1). Double digit NPKs are unnecessary and even problematic in my experience.

Everything we do has consequences, and the consequences of not enough slow release N means applying quick release nutrients in the form of tea.

You aren't likely to screw up a tea. It's as simple as putting a quarter cup of compost, worm compost, guano, or a combination of them all into a gallon of water and letting it brew for a few days. Bubbling is not necessary, our grandparents and their grandparents before them all brewed non-aerated (fermented) teas to feed their gardens, and they grew just fine.

There are a couple ways to do it....Often, I just put the organic material in a gallon milk jug, fill it with water, cap it and shake it up real well. Then uncap it and let it sit. Agitate it a few times each day, and let it brew for 2-4 days. Dilute it 1:1 with plain water and apply. No nasty odors.

Molasses - good stuff. Blackstrap is best. Mostly it feeds the microorganisms which make the existing nutrients more available to the plant. So indirectly, it boosts plant growth. A couple T per gallon of water. It also imparts some sweetness to the cured bud. I use molasses at transplant and every few weeks.
...the kelp meal in your medium is doing the same sort of thing (feeding the microherd) as well as providing natural growth regulators...

The "claw" look might not necessarily be over fertilization and could be too much ammonia nitrogen and not enough of the plant usable nitrogen, to fix this adding i think its gypsum (or it might be rock phosphate i cant remember for sure but i think its gypsum) to your soil mix can help the soil beneficial bateria/fungi convert the nitrogen into the plant usable form more efficiently and prevents it from turning into a gas and going into the air and being locked up in an unusable form meaning better growth for your plants.

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#1753279 - 09/09/12 07:13 AM Re: first time organic coming soon [Re: PurpleHaze]
Steve Offline
Old hand
***

Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 833
Loc: A/O X3
While your point about the balance between N from NH4 and non-NH4 sources is well taken, 2T of 11-4-1 bat guano only provides 0.7% ammoniacal N, and compost provides less than 1% as well.
Originally Posted By: U. of MN AG Extension
Nitrogen Transformations

Nitrogen, present or added to the soil, is subject to several changes (transformations) that dictate the availability of N to plants and influence the potential movement of NO 3 - to water supplies.

Organic N that is present in soil organic matter, crop residues, and manure is converted to inorganic N through the process of mineralization . In this process, bacteria digest organic material and release ammonium (NH 4 + ) nitrogen. Formation of NH 4 + increases as microbial activity increases. Bacterial growth is directly related to soil temperature and water content. The ammonium supplied from fertilizers is the same as the ammonium supplied from organic matter.

Ammonium-N has properties that are of practical importance for N management. Plants can absorb NH 4 + -N. Ammonium also has a positive charge and, therefore, is attracted or held by negatively charged soil and soil organic matter. This means that NH 4 + does not move downward in soils. Nitrogen in the ammonium form that is not taken up by plants is subject to other changes in the soil system.

Nitrification is the conversion of NH 4 + -N to NO 3 - -N. Nitrification is a biological process and proceeds rapidly in warm, moist, well-aerated soils. Nitrification slows at soil temperatures below 50 degrees F—thus, the general recommendation is that ammoniacal (NH 4 + forming) fertilizers should not be fall- applied until soils are below 50 degrees F. Nitrate is a negatively charged ion and is not attracted to soil particles or soil organic matter like NH 4 + . Nitrate-N is water soluble and can move below the crop rooting zone under certain conditions.

Denitrification is a process by which bacteria convert NO 3 - to N gases that are lost to the atmosphere. Denitrifying bacteria use NO 3 - instead of oxygen in the metabolic processes. Denitrification takes place where there is waterlogged soil and where there is ample organic matter to provide energy for bacteria. For these reasons, denitrification is generally limited to topsoil. Denitrification can proceed rapidly when soils are warm and become saturated for 2 or 3 days.

A temporary reduction in the amount of plant-available N can occur from immobilization (tie up) of soil N. Bacteria that decompose high carbon-low N residues, such as corn stalks or small grain straw, need more N to digest the material than is present in the residue. Immobilization occurs when nitrate and/or ammonium present in the soil is used by the growing microbes to build proteins. The actively growing bacteria that immobilize some soil N also break down soil organic matter to release available N during the growing season. There is often a net gain of N during the growing season because the additional N in the residue will be the net gain after immobilization-mineralization processes.

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