Actually overuse of antibiotics is now leading to more disease and illness due to people no longer creating natural antibodies, thus lowering their immune systems capability to defend itself. Also there are many drugs that manifest into more serious problems. Vaccines in the past when those certain diseases/ailments were a problem could be a good thing, but now a days these diseases are nearly non existent and more people die from the vaccinations then the disease/ailment itself and many vaccines are not even needed now a days, most vaccines are so full of mercury and other preservatives that the vaccine is nearly as bad for you as the disease its trying to prevent. Also there are MANY natural pain killers other then opiates and cannabis that can be effective, the main drug in aspirin comes from a tree. Also there are NATURAL cancer CURES, like cannabis oil for example, in 1974 at the Medical College of Richmond Virginia successfully treated tumours of the heart, lung, brain and liver in test lab rats/mice using cannabinoids in an alcohol concentrate (mostly delta 8 and delta 9 tetrahydrocannabinol). In nearly all cases the rats/mice had their cancers reverse growth and in many cases the rats/mice given cancer and treated with cannabinoids actually outlived the control rats/mice which were perfectly healthy, here is a link to the study, http://www.ukcia.org/research/AntineoplasticActivityOfCannabinoids/index.php . There was also a 17 year old canadian girl who invented a precision laser capable of killing just cancer cells in 2011 or 2010 i cant remember exactly when, it didnt get much media attention. There ARE natural CURES to most disease/illness, modern pharmaceuticals spend a lot of money and time suppressing that information.

Cool video. Wild stuff. If anyone’s interested in more related to the incredible mysteries in water, I highly (no pun intended) recommend:

The Hidden Messages in Water by Masaru Emoto

Purple Haze is absolute RIGHT in what he/she speaks and we have put all this crap into the ocean . When they find a whale they treat it like "TOXIC WASTE" for dumping because it's so full of mercury.. The larger the fish the more mercury it will have . We really screwed this one up and still no one is stopping this. Now look at what we have done,, we might aswell have put the bullet to our heads when we poured the nuclear waste into the ocean Headband 707

Not exactly PH. Over prescribing of antibiotics is a real problem, and is not always the doctor's fault. Many ignorant people demand 'medicine' for every sore throat or ear infection.... anyway, that is not my point. The reason classical antibiotics such as gentamycin, erythromycin, etc. are less effective is NOT due to a lowering of our immune response, but natural selection. Certain bacteria have 'learned' to adapt their chemistry to survive antibiotic attacks. Basically, we are breeding our own plague.



Again, I can't agree with your statements Purple. For what it's worth I worked on vaccines (testing for purity, potency, efficacy and safety) for nearly ten years, so I know of what I speak.

First off, the reason specific diseases have been eradicated (polio, smallpox) IS because of vaccine programs. Afaik most countries no longer vaccinate for those ailments. As for mercury being a constituent, not a chance. You must be confused by the common preservative thimerosal, which is mercury based. From the CDC: Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative used in some vaccines and other products since the 1930's. There is no convincing evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site.

Sort of like saying tap water is dangerous because it contains trace iron, sulfur, whatever.

I can't get my head around the concept of vaccines being harmful. There is so much evidence, so many lives saved, it's unfathomable why paranoia has spread to include these products.






[quote]Also there are MANY natural pain killers other then opiates and cannabis that can be effective, the main drug in aspirin comes from a tree. Also there are NATURAL cancer CURES, like cannabis oil for example...[quote]

Yes, there are many excellent natural remedies, which should be our first choice. Couldn't agree more. However in my personal experience with pain, I can tell you that 99% of the drugs out there are ineffective: both pharma and natural substances, with the exception of our favourite plant. Chewing in tree bark may treat my headache, but will not touch more serious pain.

I'm not clear on your final point there Purple. Natural methods are better than pharma ? Better, perhaps, but not always as effective - sadly.

One last comment: please do not think I advocate the use of big pharma's crap. Those people are responsible for a lot of misery, and are not exactly on my Christmas card list. Having said that, without some of their products many of us on this site would not be here. Blanket statements like 'all big pharma is evil' are not accurate, imo.

Not exactly PH. Over prescribing of antibiotics is a real problem, and is not always the doctor's fault. Many ignorant people demand 'medicine' for every sore throat or ear infection.... anyway, that is not my point. The reason classical antibiotics such as gentamycin, erythromycin, etc. are less effective is NOT due to a lowering of our immune response, but natural selection. Certain bacteria have 'learned' to adapt their chemistry to survive antibiotic attacks. Basically, we are breeding our own plague.



Again, I can't agree with your statements Purple. For what it's worth I worked on vaccines (testing for purity, potency, efficacy and safety) for nearly ten years, so I know of what I speak.

First off, the reason specific diseases have been eradicated (polio, smallpox) IS because of vaccine programs. Afaik most countries no longer vaccinate for those ailments. As for mercury being a constituent, not a chance. You must be confused by the common preservative thimerosal, which is mercury based. From the CDC: Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative used in some vaccines and other products since the 1930's. There is no convincing evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site.

Sort of like saying tap water is dangerous because it contains trace iron, sulfur, whatever.

I can't get my head around the concept of vaccines being harmful. There is so much evidence, so many lives saved, it's unfathomable why paranoia has spread to include these products.








Whether you agree with my statement is beyond the point, the point is over use of antibiotics, despite whatever reasoning its happening, is lowering our ability to produce our own antibodies which are more effective at fighting disease/illness once those antibodies are developed, compared to there manmade counter part. Not to mention the overuse of antibiotics and growth hormones polluted in our meat products that only worsen this. ANY amount of mercury or heavy metals is detrimental to man and many of these toxic compounds build up in the body over time, so its not always an instant reaction, it may take years of vaccines to build up and make you sick or it could be just one. Look at the H1N1 vaccine, they barely tested it for a few months before releasing it and it had a large amount of mercury in it. Yes the toxins in tap water ARE detrimental for you no matter how miniscule the damage, many toxins and heavy metals accumulate in the body over time. Yes while in the past those vaccines have saved lives when those diseases werent nearly eradicated, but in this day and age a vast majority of vaccines do more harm then benefit and statistically more people die each year from common vaccines then from the diseases themselves. You should only vaccinate yourself if absolutely necessary. Since i stopped getting flu vaccines i havent gotten the flu once where as i used to get it atleast once a year. Vaccines are one of the methods used for population control, even Bill Gates has been filmed admitting vaccines are a great form of population control. Id also argue that its probly safer and less harmful to grow your own poppy's and harvest you own opium and made into pain pills then it is to take the crap big pharma gives you thats been synthesized using chemicals to isolate specific opiate alkaloids like codeine or morphine etc. Just like how its safer and more effective to grow your own cannabis or make your own cannabis extracts then to take Merinol or the other cannabis pain pills. So while Big Pharma trys to put on the illusion modern medicine is more effective it is a fallacy to believe it is. The natural alternatives are just as if not more effective then their big pharma counterpart. The only good thing about modern medicine are specialist doctors who do surgery etc and arent drug pushers and more sterile environments for surgery, antibiotics are useful but only when there is no other alternative and its a necessity to use, as in life or death situation. Big Pharma doesnt cure or fix illness, they treat and mask symptoms rather then deal with the body as a whole system and fixing the source of the problem.

Antibiotics are definitely harmful. They not only wipe out the friendly bacteria but also do not really hurt the mutated bad ones. Our gut flora is one of the most important defense mechanisms we have. In fact we are made from more bacteria (gut bacteria and others) than we are actual cells!

As far as natural remedies go, like AnimalKiller stated, natural remedies blow pharmaceuticals out of the water. It all depends on dose and potency. You can find tinctures of herbs that are extremely effective and should only be used under the care of a naturopath.

Regarding your last message, you talked about smallpox etc. Well, you should research further as homeopathy had success in the early 1800s with smallpox (homeopathy has had other successes with other pandemics as well throughout history).

The placebo effect is not "small" as you put it, its 30% effective which is better than most pharmaceuticals with absolutely zero side effects! Homeopathy though does not work through this effect (it could like any other but it does not if used correctly) but through matching a disease state with its similar, basically providing a blue print to the body to take care of the disease state.

MT: allow me to respond to your statements. I would appreciate it if you could do the same, and not simply rant on about the evils of modern medicines.



How, exactly, are they harmful ? Are you saying you'd be better off with sepsis or gangrene than getting a shot of amphoteracin ? All antibiotics do NOT wipe out normal flora, 'gut bacteria', as most are NOT broad-spectrum, they do no harm to non-targeted bacterial strains, including the mutated ones. By the way, we do not carry the mutated strains as normal flora, for what I hope are obvious reasons.

Our gut flora aids in digestion, it is not a defense mechanism of any kind.

Not too sure what you are saying in that last sentence, sorry.



Can you tell me why and how natural remedies are superior to unnatural ones ? Are they more effective, safer ? I'd like to know what I can purchase to improve my fibro. Believe me when I say I am sincere in looking for effective alternatives to opiates - so far, there is only one, but it has what could be labeled 'interesting' side effects. By the way, I have tried a number of homeopathic concoctions, given to me by a foaf, who swore to their efficacy. Didn't do a thing.



I'm certain other methods of treatment/eradication were attempted in an effort to stop the spread of smallpox, the plague, polio, tuberculosis, influenza etc. Sure, some of these likely had a measure of success, but sadly they did not save the lives of hundreds of thousands, even millions of people. Since the advent of vaccination programs and antibiotics, these terrible diseases are no longer mass killers. You seem to be saying that these alternative methods are superior to more commonly used measures. Are you ?



Well, of course there are no side-effects, homeopathic solutions are 99.99% water! Where did you get the figure of 30% effectivity for placebos ? Are you saying that most pharmaceuticals are only 30% effective, or less ?

Your second sentence has be baffled again, apologies! By 'matching a disease state with its similar...', are you referring to the antigen/antibody response ? If so, you may be surprised to learn that most vaccines are produced from either attenuated pathogens, or by producing proteins which mimic the antibody producing ones found on these same pathogens. Add an adjuvant and preservative, and voila.

Came across these when poking into this topic:

From the Lancet, the world renowned medical journal:
The results of our meta-analysis are not compatible with the hypothesis that the clinical effects of homoeopathy are completely due to placebo. However, we found insufficient evidence from these studies that homoeopathy is clearly efficacious for any single clinical condition. Further research on homoeopathy is warranted provided it is rigorous and systematic. http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(97)02293-9/fulltext


From the Oxford Journal of Rheumatology:
Conclusions. We found no evidence that active homeopathy improves the symptoms of RA, over 3 months, in patients attending a routine clinic who are stabilized on NSAIDs or DMARDs.http://rheumatology.oxfordjournals.org/content/40/9/1052.full

AnimalKiller, I responded to your buddy's post, and have not taken the time to properly do so in your case, apologies.

One quick comment though: (I will try to find time later to answer your questions etc. asap).



Do you have any sort of statistical proof for such a brash statement ?! You are saying that (for some reason) the effectiveness of 'older' vaccines was good, but today's products kill more people than the disease they target ?? Have to ask, as I find that such a ludicrous thing to say... Sorry to be blunt, but cheech, there is only so much BS I can swallow politely.

I actually have been addressing your comments, if I skipped something then point it out please and I will elaborate.

So, you are claiming that antibiotics do not wipe out normal flora? Diseases such as candidiasis etc. are well documented to be mainly due to chronic antibiotic use. If we take the example of candida, it normally flourishes where the patient's gut flora has been wiped out.

By the last sentence I meant that by weight (and realize that bacteria are much smaller than our individual cells) we have, and therefore are made of, more bacteria/flora than our own cells. There are interesting debates that can stem from this realization, like are we controlled more by our own cells or the flora.

I did not claim that natural remedies are "safe", in fact if actually read the quote that you quoted of me, you would see that I stated natural remedies may in fact be stronger than conventional medicine and you should be under the care of a professional. This is simply due to the fact that tinctures for example can be made in different ratios and hence potencies. For example a 1:1 tincture (1 part herb and 1 parts fluid) will be many times stronger than say a 1:5.

You ask about purchasing medication for your "fibro". Thats really the wrong kind of mindset some people have. They think there should be a drug for a disease and this is what drives Big Pharma. Firbromyalgia is not something you developed all of a sudden is it? Why then would you think there would be something to take it away instantly?

There are numerous causes to fibromyalgia. It could be due to stress which has built up and a subsequent event such as a MVA or a simple fall that pushes their body into the disease state (i.e. the last straw that broke the camel's back so to speak). There are a number of theories on this condition, one being an involvement of connective tissue and its damage. Most patients agree that sleep alone is a major contributor to their recovery. That is good quality sleep and more than 12 hours if needed. To help with sleep certain herbs that are calming to the nervous system can be provided. But this would only be one approach, you would require someone to really take your case and find the best approach for you.

As far as vaccines go, its good to see your concession that other stuff do work. This is true and if "allowed" there could be more research on other methods that carry less consequences than vaccines. Vaccination in kids who obviously have lower immune status than adults is also under much debate.

Again, YOU claim that homeopathics are mainly water. I said placebos do not have side-effects not homeopathy, you conveniently twisted the words into saying that. There are numerous studies (one provided earlier) that they are not just water. To that end, homeopathics do have side-effects just not irreversible ones.

Yes, most pharmaceuticals barely scratch the 50% effective rate and most even fall below 30%. If you look at studies which I do on a regular basis, you will see that placebo hovers around 28%(I lazily said 30% effective). When I praise placebo this should not be confused with homeopathy, its just my observation that the placebo effect is very prominent and should also be studied further.

I will not get into the law of similars here but if you were interested in how homeopathy works you could do further research on that. In a nutshell the remedies provide a blueprint of a disease. For example if you take deadly nightshade, you would develop a certain series of symptoms before dying. The homeopathic remedy of deadly nightshade can be used to treat conditions in which the person may also be presenting with similar symptoms (e.g. very red face, massive headache, etc.).

MT, this is the first time since I joined up here that I've had to walk away from a post before answering it, for fear of loosing it. Frankly your latest comments are insulting, not just naive or ignorant.

You ask about purchasing medication for your "fibro"

Firstly, I did not ask about purchasing fibro medication, I asked if there were any alternatives you know of, effective alternatives. Clearly, you have no answer for that, i.e. there are no homeopathic concoctions that handle this level of pain.

Thats really the wrong kind of mindset some people have. They think there should be a drug for a disease and this is what drives Big Pharma.

well....DUH!!! What a ridiculous thing to say...wow. This is so wrong I don't know where to begin! Why would a person suffering from ill health not want something, anything to cure them, and want it now ? With the possible exception of cannabis, what else is there but commercially produced medicines ? Do you have a secret homeopathic cure for fibro, cancer, whatever, because if you do, I'll eat my words and convert to crystals, auras, and all that 'stuff'.

Are you actually saying it's better to suffer horribly and die than support 'big pharma' ???? Sure sounds like it...
and I thought I'd heard it all...

You know, I really try my best to stay calm, not get pissed off when someone says something totally ignorant, but you have definitely crossed that line. I doubt very much that you have any real experience living in chronic pain, do you suffer from fibromyalgia ? Are you a doctor, researcher...even have a BSc ?
Your statements clearly demonstrate just how little you know, yet you spout confusing falsehoods as if you're a bloody expert. Moving on...

Firbromyalgia is not something you developed all of a sudden is it? Why then would you think there would be something to take it away instantly?

Fibro IS something that can develop quickly, mine did. But, that is besides the point, what if it wasn't - why does it matter ???? Where did I say I wanted an instant cure, and even if I did, again -> why wouldn't I ? Is it 'wrong' to want to be pain-free, and to want it now ? You'd rather have me take only your homeopathetic diluted liquid fairy-dust in hopes of a slow, long-term cure ? You have no idea what it is to suffer, yet you come off (see below) like you know it all.





Looks like something you cut and pasted. There is no known definitive cause, or cure for fibro. Plenty of theories, including an interruption in the Kreb's cycle that involves ATP production errors, but again, just theories. I have spent a great deal of time learning about this, which someone prepared to ramble on about it should realize. Damage to connective tissue is NOT a trigger, it is one of a myriad of links. One statement you made actually is valid, the 'last straw' comment, as many sufferer's, myself included suffered a severe physical or mental trauma just prior to symptoms first appearing.

Most patients agree that sleep alone is a major contributor to their recovery.

They do ?? Of course sleep is key to battling any ailment, but it is NOT in any way, shape or form a major contributing factor in recovery, as there is no recovery. Sleep, exercise, diet, (e.g. the normal 'stuff')all are important in helping to control fibro, not recover from it.

I have tried a number of 'natural cures', sleeping aids, whatever over the years.
Read my lips: t-h-e-y d-o n-o-t w-o-r-k.
Drinking dandelion tea does little when every bone and muscle in your body is screaming at you. Your talking as if I could take on a grizzly bear with a plastic spoon! I wish there was such a spoon, homeopathic remedy, but until you find one that works, stop spouting about things you clearly know nothing about. Your hate for big pharma has tinted all your comments/arguments to the point they stopped making sense.

Do you see now why I'm getting pissed off by your posts ?? If you do not, don't bother replying, as I've had enough of your close-minded drivel.