you see, one must tear apart the very fabric of reality before one can get away from something creating space, matter, and time.

Here's a thought: What if our universe is but the offspring of another, older universe? Some astrophysicists speculate that this story is written in the relic radiation left over from the big bang: the cosmic microwave background (CMB)


Astronomers first observed the CMB in 1965, and it quickly created problems for the big bang theory -- problems that were subsequently addressed (for a while) in 1981 with the inflation theory. This theory entails an extremely rapid expansion of the universe in the first few moments of its existence. It also accounts for temperature and density fluctuations in the CMB, but dictates that those fluctuations should be uniform.
That's not the case. Recent mapping efforts actually suggest that the universe is lopsided, with more fluctuations in some areas than in others. Some cosmologists see this observation as supporting evidence that our universe formed out of a parent universe.
In chaotic inflation theory, this concept goes even deeper: an endless progression of inflationary bubbles, each becoming a universe, and each of these birthing even more inflationary bubbles in an immeasurable multiverse

source: sciencedaily

Still other models revolve around the formation of the pre-big bang singularity itself. If you think of black holes as cosmic trash compactors, they stand as prime candidates for all that primordial compression, so our expanding universe could theoretically be the white hole output from a black hole in another universe. A white hole is a hypothetical body that acts in the opposite manner of a black hole, giving off serious energy and matter rather than sucking it in. Think of it as a cosmic exhaust valve. Some scientists propose that our universe may have been born inside a black hole, and every black hole in our own universe could each contain separate universes as well.

Other scientists place the formation of the singularity inside a cycle called the big bounce in which our expanding universe will eventually collapse back in on itself in an event called the big crunch. A singularity once more, the universe will then expand in another big bang. This process would be eternal and, as such, every big bang and big crunch the universe ever experiences would be nothing but a rebirth into another phase of existence.

The last explanation we'll discuss also supports the idea of a cyclical universe, courtesy of string theory. It surmises that new matter and energy spring into existence every trillion years when two extra-dimensional membranes, or branes, collide in a zone outside our universe.

What existed before the big bang? It's still an open question. Perhaps nothing. Perhaps another universe or a different version of our own. Perhaps a sea of universes, each with a different set of laws dictating its physical reality.

Yore cosmology sounds alot like my theology...

Ok, so you're going with the universe is a tiny bubble in a glass of beer.

Where did the glass of beer come from?

Whether we come from another universe, or consist of a bunch of universes, what is the source and cause of the substance of these universes. SPACE, MATTER, and a succession of moments (time) are all created, caused things.

where did this older universe come from?

and if nothing existed before the big bang, what caused it? you would have to deny the basic laws of our existence to say that all of this something came from nothing. Nothing plus nothing equals nothing. how does existence come from nothing without a cause.

The answer is simple according to modern science, a ginormous slug like creature exists in the 11th dimension. It is oozing quantum foam. One of the bubbles in this foam collapsed from 11 dimensions down to 3 dimensions plus time, creating this universe. This was the big bang.

There was no time before the big bang because time is a dimension that got created by the collapse. So before and after didn't exist yet, at least along the directional axis we would understand. Time may have existed, but was going somewhere else.

None of it is proven however... laymen such as us accept it only on the premise of scientific "faith".

An alternative would be the Big Bong theory

so where did this slug like quantum foam come from?
and even when you strip apart the very fabric of our existence and say there was no time (no movement), where did the space for this ooze and matter for this ooze come from.
And without movement, how did it come to move?

As an old guru once said, "It's turtles all the way down." The world sits on the back of a giant turtle, which stands on an even bigger turtle, which stands on an even bigger turtle, ad infinitum.

Many scientists are leaning towards the theory of continual expansion, with baby universes ballooning off of older universes for eternity - and they have been doing so for eternity - beginningless time, if you will. Curiously Buddhism teaches a similar concept.

Whether you invoke a god or not, ultimately you start dealing with infinite levels of infinity when digging ever deeper into the mystery of how it all is - and there is precious little anyone can *truly* say about them as our brains just can't cope. Some then invoke a god, path of least resistance, I choose to continue to wonder.

But each to their own as long as *no harm* is done.

to suggest that we were caused by an intelligent designer, is far more authoritave and conclusive than anything man has ever come up with.

sooner or later you get to the top of the ladder of infinity, and if we're standing on turtles, the biggest turtle at the bottom of the stack still requires a cause for him to be there.

the only way to logically suggest that we exist without a creator God is to tear apart the fabric of realtiy- which is what most do. I.E. they say they can create movement in atoms, but they start by using space and matter. And the thing is, you have to create all three "out of nothing", to create this existence without a cause. And most nonbelievers don't even go there. They say they cna creat one of the three, but they can't do it without first starting with the other two.

You see, one has to come up with space, time, and matter, all at once, out of nothing.

And honestly, aliens planting us here is more valid of an answer than to suggest we exist without a cause, like most no-God theologians do. Big Bang is not as good of an answer as an intelligent designer. Big Bang leaves too many variables unexplained.

Empty space, we have discovered, is actually not empty at all. Quantum effects constantly produce particles and antiparticles "out of nothing,".

I could go on and on and on but I dont think your listening so ill just

but you still have not accounted for the dimension of space. Where did it come from?

you can make matter move if you start with matter and space. You can make space if you start with matter and move it. You can make matter if you start with space and time.

But you cannot bring all three of these out of nothing, it denies logic and reason, and the very laws that govern the dimensions that are the fabric of our existence.

nothing plus nothing equals nothing. And so I ask again, why is there "something" rather than "nothing"?