I just want to ask with this thread if anyone has any idea what the deal is with the "dimmable" hydrofarm phantom ballasts.

I was on the hydrofarm site yesterday, and have a few quetions they don't address.

It supposedly cannot run bulbs of a lower wattage than its rated wattage.

The lumatek "dimmable" ballasts can. 4 settings on my 600s, "super lumens" (worthless) 600w, 400w, and 360w. So you can run either a 600 or a 400 bulb with them.


(I'm not addressing hps bulbs with this because no high frequency ballast is ideal for an hps bulb. They blow holes in the arc tubes, rattle the hell out of them until the glass cracks, etc. If you research it, you'll find the same thing coming from many other growers, not owners of hydro shops and equipment retailers though. They'd rather give you a new bulb when yours fails prematurely than admit there is a problem with the design. Yes, there are a few bulbs, like the lumatek brand hps bulb, that can operate with a high frequency ballast, but the majority of hps bulbs will have a drastically reduced lifespan, if not almost immediate failure.)

Anyway, I don't have any Phantoms, but I know with my lumateks, dimming a 600w MH to 400 is nowhere near as bright (efficient) as swapping in a 400w bulb, and the spectral output is way off too. The 600 bulb dimmed to 400 looks bluish/greenish, definitely not even close to the original color.


So, does the hydrofarm phantom have some type of circuitry to prevent this? Because if not, way I see it, its dimming feature is almost completely worthless.

Thoughts on this from any of you guys?

Thoughts : KISS is almost always the best way to go. Keep It Simple Simon. This sounds anything but "SIMPLE"

It is simple, I'm just trying to figure out if the hydrofarm engineers missed the ball on this one, or what. 600/450/300 vs 600/400/360 with the lumatek, the phantom 600 can only run 600w bulbs, while the lumatek 600 can also run 400s.

But the phantom gets a better rating from sun pulse, 4 stars instead of just 1. http://sunpulselamps.com/Certified_Ballasts.html If it's easier on bulbs, it's probably worth it, despite the annoying lack of abilty to run different wattage bulbs.

All my ballasts are magnetics but if I were to buy a digital I think I'd go for one of Advanced Nutrients "BadAss" ballasts.

BadAss ballasts

Seem to be the best of both worlds as far as HID lighting goes.

Yeah, except they're like 2x the cost, not yet available, and still can't run different wattage bulbs. Taken from the AN site,

or a 4-way dimmable 600w version with a 660w overdrive mode (600w, 450w, 300w)

I just want to know WHY these designers are not engineering them to run different bulbs, when all they'd have to do is make them put out 400w instead of 450!!

That makes no sense at all.

Why make a setting for a bulb that doesn't, tmk, exist?

Dumbass pencil pushers! lol

The reason is because 1 bulb built to be run in a digital ballast will perform the function of all 3. if you don't like the color it puts out, then do your thing with the other bulb & ballast. the reason i have a dimmable phantom is because i need the smart technology to prevent my bulbs from blowing during the multitude of random power outages, & to take the temp down during these random heat waves.

do you folks have air cooled hoods? cuz i'll tell ya... switching bulbs in an air cooled hood isn't a fun thing to do while any plants are in the room period, none the less multiple times based on wattage desired to run that day & because i don't like the color it's putting out @ 75%.

The second point i would like to make is lumatek is a direct power source(just converts the power when it gets it), & NOT considered a smart ballast. the reason i bought a phantom was because of frequent power outages & i didn't want my bulbs blowing constantly. lumatek doesn't offer a hot strike protection. as soon as it receives power, it fires directly to whatever the setting the dial is on. if the power fickers on & off for a few minutes before remaining steady... that ballast will keep powering on & off the whole time. i don't need to run that kind of fire risk.

with a phantom, if you buy a 600w, you put a 600 bulb in and leave it because it will ALWAYS fire the bulb to 100% power to properly warm the bulb before dimming. THAT is why you can't run different bulbs.
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My review on phantom 600.

Phantom 600W Digital Ballast Specs, 120/240v Dimmable SKU: PHE600D
Weight: 10.9 lbs.
Package Dimensions: 13.8L x 9.0W x 3.5H

Hydrofarm's Phantom Digital Ballast arrives on the market as the most rigorously tested ballast in the industry. The Phantom features silent operation, lightweight design, multiple placement options and the maximum lumen output around. We listened to your needs and learned. Now you can reap the benefit with this durable, premium digital ballast.

Tri-mode, push-button dimmable feature gives you the light you need in your specific growing situation.
Hot re-strike programming protects the lamp in the event of a power outage
Tested for compatibility with most brands of high intensity grow lamps
Dual resettable breakers - protects lamp and household circuits
Only ballast on the market designed for vertical operation for coolest running and optimum grow space
Drives the highest light output for maximum plant growth
Universal reflector adaptor and 8 ft heavy duty cord included
Unlike magnetic ballast, Phantom runs completely silent
Patented lock & seal BAREF lamp cord installed
Internal RF protection
Triple surface aluminum fins - most efficient cooling in its class
Internal Resin coating protects components for long life



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i bought the phantom september 2010, thing works amazing, i have no complaints so far. i'm not quite sure how the hotstrike protection works but i have accidentally unplugged it & plugged it back in (thinking it wouldn't fire back up until it was ready), but it did immediately fire back up. no bulbs were blown & it didn't have any out of the ordinary behaviors when re-firing. since buying it i've had multiple power outages & my bulbs have lasted a year+, so it's safe to say it works.

it runs pretty cool, very quiet, & i love the spacing & depth on the surface's cooling fins. i can't hear anything from it unless i'm extremely close to it & focus on the sound. when it starts up it will fire the bulb to 100% power for 15 minutes before any dimming can be done. it has a flashing led that stops blinking when the bulb is warmed up. if you are using the dimming function, the ballast remembers what setting it was set to when it was turned off. it will still fire the bulb to 100% for the first 15 minutes but then will dim back down to your preselected power. it dims with a single electronic push button & has indicator light to let you know what power setting it's on.

it also has two breakers, one to protect the unit & the other for the houses electrical system. i appreciate the added protection because an electrical fire is the last thing you want.

last thing i would like to add is that i like the fact that it can be mounted vertically without leaking resin like a lumatek. what's that u say??? lumatek's don't leak resin... TNG's full of $#!+?!? well u can scroll down to the bottom of their very own product page under the title "Mounting Location" [[[Click here for the Lumatek General Product Information Page]]]

All that new-fangled stuff sure is hard for an old feller to wrap his head around sometimes.

Cell-ee-are phones, megafloppynits and who knows what other consarned thang.

I just like to keep it simple like this.

Nice pic, LabRat.

Thenewguy05, all I'm saying is if these guys made their ballasts to put out 600/400/250, then they'd be able to run 600w bulbs, 400w bulbs, and 250w bulbs at the proper spectral output and efficiency. There is absolutely no reason why they can't do that. That's a hell of a lot better than 660/600/450/300 or whatever, where they can only run 1 bulb properly. I don't care who the manufacturer is, I'm not pro lumatek or anti hydrofarm, or anti whoever else. The lumatek 600s still don't get all 3 bulbs, just 600 and 400, the 360 (or 300w setting I've seen on the newest ones) is worthless too.



You mentioned how much of a pain it can be to change bulbs, well, real world, no one is going to be changing their bulbs throughout a day. If all they're doing is trying to reduce the heat production temporarily to not overwhelm their AC on a really hot day, the dimming function is useable, because the loss in efficiency and spectral output is tolerable for that short time.


Let me give you a scenario where the dimming function is not useable. In my clone/veg area, usually it's overgrown, but sometimes I get behind, like I am now due to killing a bunch of undesireable clones. So I may need to go up and down with my wattage for a couple weeks at a time.

I do not want to be switching ballasts or underdriving a bulb for that length of time. Have you ever underdriven a MH, and then looked at that wattage driving the correct bulb? You take your hydrofarm phantom, drop it to 450w, and look at what your bulb is putting out. Then get a different ballast and a 400w bulb, light it up next to it. The 400w bulb will look a lot better, and be brighter, too. Anyway, my veg area is the pefect application for a selectable wattage ballast.


You mentioned a a "fire risk" with the lumateks, and with your totally pro hydrofarm post, do you work for hydrofarm, or what? "I don't need that kind of fire risk" what are you talking about? The lumateks try to restart the bulb, if it's hot, it doesn't restart, that's all there is to it. 6 hours later, 10 hours later, whatever, still won't be restarted. Where is the fire risk in that?? It's fucking anoying to check on your room and find your lights off hours later after a brief outage, but it's not a fire risk.

The whole thing about warming the bulb up first before dimming is also bullshit. It does not matter if you warm the bulb up first, when underdriven, it will drop down to the same spectral output whether you warmed it up or not. It's going to "wear the bulb out" the same way. Surely if the phantom was designed to operate 600s, 400s, and 250s, like all of these ballasts should be regardless of manufacturer, each setting would not overdrive the bulb at the start. Designing them that way does not have any tradeoff that I can see. You can still underdrive your 600s at 400 if you want to, etc. If you do see any kind of tradeoff with that, let me know what it is.


These manufacturers need to step their game up, that's all I'm saying. Especially when you look at what you can get in a modern tig welder or similar equipment. The miller dynasty 200dx, you can manipulate the waveform so much you practically need an oscilliscope to see wtf you're doing with it. The technology is definitely already here. These days, inverter technology is in everything from microwaves to battery chargers.

I think ballasts are all going to eventually do what I'm advocating, and also have output waveforms that finally do what all the marketing lies claimed years ago, make life easier on the bulbs. Square waves aside, just looking at a normal sine wave, the way some of these ballasts are made, if an audio amplifier was made to those specs, you'd definitely be able to hear the distortion in the speakers. Yet they think it's okay to feed that into a bulb. I think it's the combination of the high frequency and distorted output that blows holes in the arc tubes, breaks the electrodes free, and rattles the metal structure inside the bulb so bad it breaks the outer glass.


Edit: here's something I just cut and pasted from the hydrofarm site from the FAQ section on their ballasts. Read the very last sentence, I think it's pretty funny that they're almost endorsing the lumateks right on their own site..and also that the lumateks are coming closer and closer to doing what I say they should.

Q: I have a 1000W ballast, can I use a 400W or 600W bulb in it?
A: As a general rule, ballasts can only be used with bulbs that are of the same wattage rating. A 1000W ballast can only be used with a 1000W bulb, a 400W with a 400W, etc. *This does not apply to the dimmable Lumateks, which can use a 600W bulb if dimming switch is set to 600W, etc. The Dial-A-Watt technology inside Lumatek ballasts gives them the ability to power different wattage lamps on the same ballast. If you have a resin sealed Lumatek 1,000W ballast you can use a 600W, 750W or 1,000W lamp in it. If you have a new Air Cooled Lumatek ballast you can use a 400W, 600W or 1,000W lamp in it.*

quite honestly, i think the reason they aren't building them to accept the other lower wattage hps and mh bulbs is because the t5's have such crazy output with equal to or less heat. they really are sweeping the 400w & under market at the moment. don't get me wrong, i ran a 400w mh for 2 years before upgrading to the 4ft 8bulb t5. i honestly feel that it's a better source of light for the veg area & for the amount of power used (output is comparable to a 600w). they are also dimmable by simply shutting down half the bulbs with a rocker switch. no color changes what so ever... sounds more fit to your application. the source isn't just in the center or a single source... it's like a wall of light, but that's another conversation.

i'll agree that there is probably a loss in power efficiency and spectrum but spectrum is somewhat BS because threw out the life of any bulb, the color temp changes slightly. even a brand new bulb is not @ correct color temp. ushio lists that the bulb needs to burn 100 hours before the bulb is producing the 2100K.

onto you next point... lol i wish i worked for hydrofarm, maybe i would have gotten a better deal on some of my gear. most of my gear is hydrofarm, timers (which lose 15 minutes every 3 months, P.O.S. BTW), bulbs are ushio and i believe hydrofarm is the supplier of those, pumps are eco plus which i believe is hydrofarm supplier as well, my t5 is a hydrofarm & i love the thing... so yea i support the use of their stuff just like anything else i use ... my hoods are block buster's so i support sunleaves, any nutrient line i've used that i find quality.... any soil ammendment.... i rep that $h!+. regardless of brand, I tell everyone just what I think of it whatever it is.

on that note i've never owned or operated a lumatek ballast. i had a friend(RIP) who would swear by them & the quantum's. they were not the current dial a watt version. his room was on it's own breaker because they would kick right back on after the power went out. that is why i decided to go the smart ballast route. i don't know if that is what was suppose to happen or not, but that's what experience i have with their product so far. Nexgen's are what originally caught my eye but i don't do internal fans on ballasts & that's also why i don't own a quantum. it's just 1 more thing to go wrong.



warming the bulbs is not really about sprectrum output, it's more about bulb life. same goes with dimming, it slowly drops the bulb down instead of instantly restricting the power like a dial. the bulb was built for a specific purpose, be it 600, 400, 250... if the bulb is built to run at 600 it should run at 600 like normal before tampering with it's output. the fact that a bulb built for a digi ballast does not light the same way an incandescent bulb does. there is a specific pulse of electricity that ignites the bulb for that ballast. if you ignite a 600 bulb with a 400 setting, those bulbs are being seriously mistreated in my opinion. some bulb manufacturers will only cover blown bulbs if they are used with certain ballasts.



this makes me think additional circuitry to regulate igniting these lower wattage bulbs... might be an idea for the next generation of "smart ballasts". Unfortunately, companies today would probably rather sell you another ballast than implement that much technology into 1 ballast at a comparable price.

i find it interesting that they are claiming lumatek can & will, ignite & run the various bulbs. the dial must be restricting the igniting pulse as well... sounds more bare bones nuts & bolts kinda thing. i wonder if other companies could simply adjust the igniting power digitally with an additional switch on the ballast to let it know what size bulb you are running before it is even powered up.

p.s. I see they have "600W, 750W or 1,000W"... but who makes a 750W bulb lol?? thats almost like the 600W MH... damn near inexistant. the closest i have found was practically a 600 conversion bulb.

you mentioned the waveform... HAVE YOU SEEN THE SULFER PLASMA BULBS? cool stuff, but i think the project was somewhat of a flop.