Oh yeah, I see what you mean. And yet... Jesus drank the wine.

Did he eat herbs, or smoke any weed or inhale incense, or use special oils, cause those things could be weed.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/jan/06/science.religion

I'm not sure if it was your input that was seen as inappropriate or the input of others. You also have to remember that website is intended to be " ... a strategic resource ... to serve as a lighthouse of the grace and truth ... "

Truth without grace is cruel, and grace without truth leads to sentimental pretending and to living a fallacious life. Without grace we do not dare to see the truth, and without truth we can not belong.

Anyway, I think the hidden problem with many Christians is that they see cannabis in competition with grace rather than a compliment of grace. Truth is supposed to follow grace but I think to many get caught up in the "high" of grace and fail to proceed into truth.

I could probably go on ... maybe later

-But can they defend their doctrine? They can close their minds to the light of the truth, but the light of the truth masters that darkness. Every bit of truth we present registers in their minds and begins to make clear their world view about pot.
I can defend my position on cannabis in any theological circle in Christianity, when the circle is willing to engage in a civil discussion. Put simply, God gave me the answer

"Anyway, I think the hidden problem with many Christians is that they see cannabis in competition with grace rather than a compliment of grace."

Yeah, this view is very common, and it is frustrating. The idea is obviously ridiculous if taken to its extreme---eating at all, taking vitamin supplements, etc. is merely indicative of lack of trust in the sufficiency of grace. What they fail to understand is that all is graceful if taken gracefully---there is nothing outside of God's grace, if taken with thanksgiving.

Indeed, even Emily Murphy, an Anglican Judge who did more damage to Canada than perhaps any other human ever, did not advocate abstinence---the "cure" she relays in The Black Candle involves scopolamine, chloral hydrate: pharmaceutical derivatives of the impure plant drugs marihuana, cocaine, etc. After this treatment, it is related that many of the patients gain 25, 50, 100 lbs. If they were underweight before, great. If not, it's clear that the substitution therapy Murphy and Co. recommended was to addict people to food in place of drugs.

One big taboo in Christian community is explaining the Eucharist as a Drug Ritual. It is, tho, and that is A-OK. The only problem is that if we have freedom of religion, people should be free to worship with other sorts of exempted wines.

Sacramental whine is wholly exempt from statutory control. Why should other sacraments not be the same?

I'm not sure if the problem is insufficient grace, an addiction to grace, grace from an source that's not good or the improper application of grace? but I am interested in exploring this subject.

the problem is that they have all been beat over the head with "drugs are bad" for 70+ years by government propaganda, that their consciences have become desensitized and they've come to believe it as truth. This is not a problem exclusive to Christians, people of all cultures have bought into the war on drugs.

And as a result, most Christians come to the table with the presupposition that pot is dangerous, evil, unfit for use, sinful, contrary to the will of GOd, etc etc. Their conscience is convinced by these devil doctrines of asceticism and prohibition of foods and drinks, and so when we mention the use of pot or pot law reform, the warning lights go off, and all rational intelligent thought and sincere searching for the truth turns off, and they become deffensive, trying to justify their presuppositions.

In example, consider some of this moderators comments;
"This does not give you hermenuetical authority to twist the word of Paul to bring acceptance to marijuana as a food and to justify wholesale disregard for the laws of the governing authoritiies placed over us by God."
"You know as well as I that there are great drawbacks to marijuana. It is a mind altering drug when used for the common purpose that is current in our culture. The kind of addictive drug that makes brains into mush and I have only my older brother to look to for an example."
"The simile (marijuana & poison ivy) is not faulty. You cannot use Genesis 1:29 to justify eating every single plant out there (that's just plain silly). The reality is that some are not designed to eat. You are applying a principal broadly where it was never meant to be applied. You are making the Bible say what you want it too. My point was not to compare marijuana to poison ivy so much as to point out that your biblical application is faulty."
"I teach my children to follow the governing authorities and to stay away from those who do not. In this case that would include pot users because "bad company corrupts good morals." I think that pot users are not in church because the church rightly teaches that we should respect and appreciate the governing authorities as well as follow their rules."
"As for the "less addictive than alcohol" argument... I simply don't buy it. Further, there are worse sins than smoking pot and a user of marijuana should be welcome in the worship service. However, do not expect me to encourage such sin any more than I would say...adultery. BTW I think it is a sin to use mind altering substances...it goes along with our being sober-minded (1 Corinthians 15:34)."
"Excuse me but I do not live in a bubble. Around here pot users are anti-authoritarian, users of other mind altering substances (read drugs like meth, crack, and the like), and general hoodlums. This is not an assumption but simply the truth. I don't want my kids hanging with them period."
"I wouldn't. It is both lawful and Biblical.(to drink alcohol)"
"First I don't think alcohol is a "hard drug" and neither do I think pot is a "hard drug". I do believe it is harder and more addicting than alcohol. As for the rest of your argument, it is to me as absurd as your quotes to justify it as a food staple. BTW none of your quotes speak to mind-altering substances but foods."



and this one in particular is what I'm talking about. I see it over and over again- ignorant people choosing to remain ignorant, afraid of what their eyes might be opened to, afraid of the truth-

JeffL -- fwiw -- i find your arguments (that i've read) for pot use heavily tinged in denial & rationalization -- they become utter assurdity to me & so offensive -- the result is i ignore your words & this whole Chris Diaz situation goes on without my involvement

i am not the 1 to reach you in this debate but it bothers me that your position has affected my desire to investigate this other person's situation -- but others need my prayers/help so i'll focus on that right now

may God's Will be done in your life & his



EVERYTHING I had posted on that forum was textbook Evangelical Theology. The same book they model their theology program after. THe Church Historical quotes are accepted by Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and Protestant Christians. EVERYBODY accepts these writings and materials, they ARE the early Church Fathers.
And my measure of reason is the third stage of truth in the Lutheran Triangle (systematic theology), something their program deals with extensively.


SO everything I presented comes from the same books they use read and believe. If they say they believe in Christian Theology, then they must also accept this as truth. My evidences blow their false image about pot away for good.


So I guess the answer is to keep shining light. Educate people about what is good just and virtuous about the blessing of the cannabis plant, the destructions of the war on cannabis, And to continue demonstrating from the Scriptures, from Tradition, and from right reason that GOd is on our side, and those of the prohibitionist leanings are twice dead wrong.

1) I think your a bit quick in your judgement. Try not to be to discouraged by the action of just a couple people.

2) I don't think this is the proper place to be discussing issues you have with other forums. I would recommend trying to resolve your issues with the other forum itself.

3) You might want to check the user agreement with this other forum. Your post(s) here may put you in violation of the rules and you maybe running the risk of being band.




1st RULE: You do not talk about FIGHT CLUB.
2nd RULE: You DO NOT talk about FIGHT CLUB.

LOL! It don't make a difference to me what they think or what they do now. They do not want to have this conversation, their words show how misinformed they are, and they do not search for the Biblical truth on the matter.

But the conversation still goes on. It just doesn't occur under their leadership.
The way I see it, is we're either vessels to Honor, or to dishonor. One way or another, the GOspel gets advanced.

I think you might be trying to do to much in one thread. Consider starting a couple more.

I was considering starting a thread on the theology of getting high or the most high in the theology forum using Psalm 91 as a reference. However, it seems that the Net Bible replaced all the references to the "most high" in Psalms 91. Not sure why or what the original greek or whatever is supposed to mean?? I'm sure there is other scripture that could be used as a reference for such a discussion as well as lots of contemporary christian music that's all about getting high and the lord most high.