I love the unbridled pride that shows up in this forum, all the peeps who "KNOW how god thinks" "KNOW what GOD IS" and "KNOW that god LOVES them"


Its neither ignorance nor stupidity: it's delusion. You don't know god, but god knows YOU.

Scientific hypothesis is the product of ignorance ... filling the gaps of what we don't understand.

The scientific community uses different words to signify the level of confidence or faith in a said observation. They range from "hypothesis" meaning little more than wild ass guess to "theory" meaning probable to "Law" meaning absolute truth.

However, in the religious community believe and belief can range anywhere from wild ass guess to absolute truth. It's a matter of ones personal level of confidence or faith in a said observation.

Laziness is the Mother of Invention. Ignorance is the Father of Religion and Hypothesis.



Sometimes it's a fine yet blurry line between realistic confidence and arrogance. So, What is worse? Seeing a delusion or being completely blind?

Hmmm... at the risk of drawing fire, I have to add:

We need science, without it we'd still be using cow dung to treat sprained ankles. It is not, however, an answer to everything, science has itself proved that science can't discover everything, there will always be things we don't know. But it *is* the best method we've yet found for describing the universe and working within it. The trillions of transistors scattered throughout the world that are switching in perfect synchrony without a single one malfunctioning to get this message to you is proof that what we know, we know very well. And we only know 5% of what we'll know in 50 years.

We also need spirituality, as much as some might abhor that, but when I say spirituality I'm not talking about religion, mysticism or any other form of superstition - religious doctrine is as much a prison for the soul as scientific doctrine, if it's the only way you know of looking at things. Some religions are better than others at pointing a finger to the moon, but if you just focus on the finger, you miss all the heavenly glory.

My two cents... please be gentle.

I used to think of myself as an agnostic but that's just a cop-out.

Hedging one's bets as it were.

I'm much more comfortable as an atheist.

I think that the agnostic view is the view closest to reality given our current level of knowledge.

Atheism is just another delusion. If atheism works for you and your comfortable with it then I'm quite ok with that.

However, I personally do not find any comfort in atheism.

I consider myself a non-theist... I don't angrily deny God exists, if you believe it I respect that so long as your belief doesn't impact my life, I just simply don't *feel* it, I have no connection with any supernatural intelligence. Sure, I'll wonder sometimes, it's only natural, our brains are adapted for pattern recognition and for the majority of the population they interpret perceived patterns as the will of a higher agency, like seeing faces in the clouds or tree bark.

But I *do* feel power, agentless primordial power, something had to give rise to that first huge quantum fluctuation we call the Big Bang. My spiritualism centers around respecting that power, recognizing it is in all of us, in everything, and finding ways to work with it instead of against it. It wasn't until intelligent life evolved in the Universe (we might not be the first, probably not the last) that that power became conscious of its own magnificence. And then we pesky humans began projecting our frail selves onto it, giving it names, motives, claiming that we were made in its image (and therefore it *must* be something like us, the hubris!) etc... pesky humans!

I find no comfort in running my life like some ethereal being is looking over my shoulder at every mis-step.

To maybe mis-quote Samual Clemens when he was asked about his attitude about death.

"I existed for millions of years before I was born and suffered no pain" "I only wish my end could be such"

It's not the dying, it's the way of it that concerns most of us.

I am of firm belief that we are but aware animals and like all animals we will fade to black when we cease to exist and heaven or hell is ours here while we live to make what we will of our existence.

To quote Spock, "To think otherwise is illogical"

I'm not here to try to change your way of thinking but maybe to get you to think outside the box you grew up in.

The need to believe in something greater than ourselves is a force to be reckoned with but can be overcome with logical research.

May the force be a positive influence in your life!

http://books.google.ca/books?id=4bT3ACjkRasC&dq=golden%20bough&source=gbs_similarbooks

anybody engaging in theological debate ought to first read THE GOLDEN BOUGH, James George Frazer. He wrote extensively on comparative religions explaining the evolutionary development of religion out of magic. He expounds on the EVOLUTION OF RELIGIOUS AND HERO ARCHETYPES and cites literally THOUSANDS OF EXAMPLES, delving deep into antiquity in an effort to illustrate to the reader, seeker the MYTHOLOGY BEHIND RELIGION.

take the MESSIAH HERO MYTHOLOGY:

-prophesied HIS COMING by signs in heavens
-angels selecting the VIRGIN MOTHER
-child imbued with superior knowledge
-performing miracles
-preaching parables of the afterlife, salvation
-sacrificial tragedy: execution
-resurrection

all of these elements of a messiah persona have been BORROWED, these themes have existed for thousand of years before CHRIST.

A more contemporary author: Tom Harpur, of THE PAGAN CHRIST, WATER INTO WINE, who after decades of theological study; years of pastoring various churches; years as religion columnist with Toronto Star agrees that there is NO ACTUAL HISTORICAL RECORD THAT CHRIST WAS A LIVING PERSON. Yet states the scripture should be considered ALLEGORY, MYTH. He suggests that when internalized in this light, the scripture becomes a subjective evolutionary roadmap for the SOUL.

Also consider CG Jung, who wrote extensively on symbolism, mythology, archetypes.

UNCOUNTED MILLIONS HAVE BEEN SACRIFICED ON THE BASIS OF INTERPRETATION.

"all of these elements of a messiah persona have been BORROWED, these themes have existed for thousand of years before CHRIST."

Clearly, then, this process must be important---and like every natural process, it continues to happen. Unfortunately, nasty people don't like the Sons and Daughters of God, so they try to lie to them about what they are.

"Truly all men had a like beginning, for they all came from one father and from one mother: they are all, moreover, born alike. That is no wonder, because one God is father of all creatures; for he made them all, and governs them all. He gives light to the sun, and to the moon, and places all the stars. He has created men on the earth, joined together the soul and the body by his power, and made all men equally noble in their original nature. Why do ye then lift up yourselves above other men, on account of your birth, without cause, since ye can find none unnoble, but all are equally noble, if ye are willing to remember the creation, and the Creator, and moreover the birth of every one of you? But true nobility is in the mind, not in the flesh, as we have before said. But every man who is altogether subject to vices, forsakes his Maker, and his first origin, and his nobility, and thence becomes degraded till he is unnoble."

I certainly don't believe or live my life thinking that some ethereal being is constantly looking over my shoulder. I don't need atheism to edit or erase that part of my delusion.

What else about atheism do you find comforting? Preferably something that doesn't reference something that you supposedly don't believe in



I like Spock and I like logic. Atheism isn't thinking outside the box. It's just a different box and from what I've seen atheism is a dark empty box.

However, if you seen something different and have been enlightened by atheism then I might be interested. That's if you are capable of communicating such enlightenment?



I not interested in trying to overcome the force. I'm interested in understanding the force so I can use it to my advantage