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#1745744 - 06/18/12 10:01 PM
Re: PVC pump flow question
[Re: NScooknet]
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Old hand
Registered: 08/17/09
Posts: 1109
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I take back what I said about not vegging, I didn't realize you were swapping in plants so small. When I'd swap into my old aero/nft setup, the plants would probably be about maybe 8" tall or so, and they'd kind of run out of root space after 2 months of flowering in the 6" tubes.
I can't tell you how big to let your plants get before switching to 12/12, but if those are 4" tubes, you probably don't want to let them get too big.
btw, I saw you came across this in another thread, but don't do 12/12 from seed. If you want to know why, look up the overall number of days, yield, electrical consumption, & number of harvests in a year.
_________________________
9/11 was an inside job.
Rights are only protected by force, so be strong.
End the Fed.
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#1745762 - 06/19/12 08:22 AM
Re: PVC pump flow question
[Re: Harvey_M]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 03/04/12
Posts: 286
Loc: NS Canada
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Yeah, I regret going with the 4" tubes, but it was all that I could find used at the time, so I grabbed them.
When I had tomatoes growing in there back in jan, the roots were pretty long, and started growing down the drainage tube...lol.
I found that you can trim the roots a bit without shocking the plant too much, does that apply for cannabis also, or are they too sensitive for root trimming?
I'm guessing the plants need to be in the actual "plant" stage though, and not the "seedling" stage before switching to flowering right??
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#1745815 - 06/19/12 02:58 PM
Re: PVC pump flow question
[Re: NScooknet]
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Old hand
Registered: 08/17/09
Posts: 1109
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Yeah, seems kind of weird to wonder if 4" tubes are too small, but most people swap in clones, not seedlings. With seedlings, they can reach a size by the time they're ready to flower that exceeds the size of a clone dramatically.
Maybe you could go to 12/12 early to limit your final size, I don't know. I have no experience doing that myself.
As far as root trimming, I had plants transplanted with root damage into my flowering setup go hermie. The roots had grown together beforehand in dwc, and I foolishly tore them to some degree to get them apart. I didn't know that was going to happen, but I sure never forgot, that almost ruined my whole crop. So, based on this, I would say yes, cannabis is sensitive to anything threatening its roots during 12/12.
_________________________
9/11 was an inside job.
Rights are only protected by force, so be strong.
End the Fed.
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#1745894 - 06/20/12 10:23 AM
Re: PVC pump flow question
[Re: Harvey_M]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 03/04/12
Posts: 286
Loc: NS Canada
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While we are on the subject of seedlings, i was wondering, now that they are a week old or so and under the 6500K tubes, when should I lower the lights from the 1 foot they are now to be closer to the plants? I've noticed the leaves are just starting to turn just the very slightest hint of yellowish along the edges, barely noticeable, but I'm watching them like a hawk. Could that be because the nutes are too weak, or could it be the lights are too far from them now? The "Aqua Flakes" brand nutes I mixed up are only about 1/2 strength, and the water is reverse osmosis filtered water in tank of about 50 liters or so, with lots of aeration and pumping circulation. The pH is around 5.8, the PPM is around 150 or so, and I have no idea what the ec is as I don't have a meter yet. The ambient temp in the room is about 82 degrees right now. What do you think? Yesterday:  Today: 
Edited by NScooknet (06/20/12 10:36 AM)
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#1745924 - 06/20/12 02:18 PM
Re: PVC pump flow question
[Re: NScooknet]
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Old hand
Registered: 08/17/09
Posts: 1109
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So...how do you know the ppm if you don't know the ec? I mean, if you don't have a meter, how do you know the ppm?
I'm not going to be able to tell you what your target tds/ppm/ec should be, but I do know that 150 is too low, or it will be very soon at least. For reference, I clone with 250-300ppm (at the .7 EC conversion), but after they start to grow, they need considerably more, at least in dwc, especially if I expect fast growth out of them.
I've observed that plants can look very healthy with a low tds solution under bright light, with no air movement. But they'll hardly grow. Then if you start moving the air around, they start metabolizing, and show deficiencies from that low tds almost immediately. Same thing if you add co2, it will really bring out any deficiencies if the nutes aren't perfectly dialed in. Reason I'm bringing this up is if you drop that light, if you already have air movement, that higher metabolism the lowered light will try to produce with that air movement might show you right away that the nutes aren't enough.
The general rule of nutes is if the leaves look light, raise the tds, then they'll look better, if you raised it too much the tips will burn, if you raised it even more too much, the edges and tips will burn. The leaves can also get dark green, and have "the claw" or "ram's horn", where they kind of fold up and curl downward. Even so, tip burn/edge burn/ram's horn still won't negatively impact your harvest, unless other stuff is off too. Deficiencies, not enough cal mag, too much N with not enough p and/or k, and micronutrient deficiencies, they all will.
I guess you'll find out soon enough what your tds should be, and if you need a chiller. If your water gets up to ambient, you might have a problem, I don't really know, guess we'll see.
_________________________
9/11 was an inside job.
Rights are only protected by force, so be strong.
End the Fed.
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#1745927 - 06/20/12 03:39 PM
Re: PVC pump flow question
[Re: Harvey_M]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 03/04/12
Posts: 286
Loc: NS Canada
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So...how do you know the ppm if you don't know the ec? I mean, if you don't have a meter, how do you know the ppm?
I'm not going to be able to tell you what your target tds/ppm/ec should be, but I do know that 150 is too low, or it will be very soon at least. For reference, I clone with 250-300ppm (at the .7 EC conversion), but after they start to grow, they need considerably more, at least in dwc, especially if I expect fast growth out of them.
I've observed that plants can look very healthy with a low tds solution under bright light, with no air movement. But they'll hardly grow. Then if you start moving the air around, they start metabolizing, and show deficiencies from that low tds almost immediately. Same thing if you add co2, it will really bring out any deficiencies if the nutes aren't perfectly dialed in. Reason I'm bringing this up is if you drop that light, if you already have air movement, that higher metabolism the lowered light will try to produce with that air movement might show you right away that the nutes aren't enough.
The general rule of nutes is if the leaves look light, raise the tds, then they'll look better, if you raised it too much the tips will burn, if you raised it even more too much, the edges and tips will burn. The leaves can also get dark green, and have "the claw" or "ram's horn", where they kind of fold up and curl downward. Even so, tip burn/edge burn/ram's horn still won't negatively impact your harvest, unless other stuff is off too. Deficiencies, not enough cal mag, too much N with not enough p and/or k, and micronutrient deficiencies, they all will.
I guess you'll find out soon enough what your tds should be, and if you need a chiller. If your water gets up to ambient, you might have a problem, I don't really know, guess we'll see. Hi Harvey, Thanks for your info and patience with me, I have a brain injury, so sometimes I do not communicate things well. I have a TDS/temp meter, it's all I have other than a separate pH test kit, in the future, I'll be purchasing more gear to monitor things. I thought that EC was a measure of electrical conductivity, which was a different thing than TDS or the PPM of the solids in the nutes, my bad, sorry  Anyhow, I just checked again with my TDS meter, and they were 165, so I added more nutes, and now it is at 281. The solution temp is at 25 degrees C. So what should the TDS or PPM be once the veg cycle has started and they are not considered "seedlings" anymore? For that matter, when ARE they not considered seedlings anymore, and when should I step up the concentration in the nutes? The Aqua Flakes I'm using does give a rough guideline for the weeks, but it seems to only give it for flowering, even though the seller of the nutes said it was good for start to finish growing. It's funny, I'm struggling with the same issues in my garden outdoors, trying to get nutrients into the soil without burning the plants, we have nothing but sandy soil here, it sux! So when should I drop the light anyhow?? Thanks again for your guidance! 
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#1745932 - 06/20/12 04:59 PM
Re: PVC pump flow question
[Re: nutogrow]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 03/04/12
Posts: 286
Loc: NS Canada
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Don't wanna horn in but them nutes are plenty warm. those temps won't work well in flower imho.
I don't have a chiller, so I can see keeping the nutes cool is going to be a real challenge. So what is the ideal temp for the nutrient solution? Perhaps a sprayer in the tank might cool it down some??
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