Thanks Rebel Dawg, most excellent advice.

Sorry I didn't include water temperatures, as I do keep those records. The tub (in the flower closet) with the pump averages 71.5 degrees (F), with a high of 71.8 degrees (F).

Current temperatures (9 hrs into 12 hr on cycle) are:
In closet @ 42" = 79.0 degrees (F)
In closet @ 66" = 88.0 degrees (F)
In room @ 42" = 70.0 degrees (F)
Outdoors in shade = 84.0 degrees (F)
Water temperature = 71.3 degrees (F)

I have air stones in all tanks and get some aeration from the top feed return.

I have and will keep an eye on the reservoir, trying to keep the temperatures as cool as possible. I read up on exactly what you describe i.e. dissolved oxygen to water temperatures ratio, several months ago and started thinking of a way to cool the tanks passively. I have come up with a design but have not built a prototype yet.

Thanks for the advice and the reminder.

P.S. I think my next purchase will be an ultrasonic humidifier. I believe my next problem will be low humidity as we move into summer.

When I said I have these lights within an inch of the plants, I meant it.

Sometimes, as the plant grows, a blade of a leaf will come into contact with a bulb. With these CFLs, damage is limited to the point of contact only. Damaged blades are shown in the first attachment.

The fix is easy enough.

Grab the scissors (that you just finished sterilizing) and trim the damaged part of the blade off. I cut straight across in order to minimize the surface area of the wound exposed to the atmosphere. The rest of the leaf is good to go and there’s no dead material blocking those photons. The trimmed blades are shown in the second attachment.

Beats the heck out of bleaching the top of a plant or two…

on the rez cooling, sometimes it can be as simple as running a fan across the water. other times, jugs of ice or a chiller are appropriate. As long as you keep your temps where they are you will be fine.

At some point I might do an experiment to see how high the water temp can actually go without problems. My dwc cloner is set at 81, and it'll hold it within 1 degree. I suppose in between taking clones, I could leave a few in there, add some nutrients, and turn it up. With good aeration directly under the roots, I bet it can go higher than you might think. I mean, you always hear air temp above 85 without co2 equals no growth, but my friend in CA grew outdoors where it's very hot in the summer, up to 115 degrees, he said just water the plants religiously, they still blow up.

my1952- I do the same with any leaf tips that end up touching the bulb for too long and it works fine.
I'm glad this topic is civil again. The flouro battle is never ending it seems. I know my opinion doesn't matter much due to my lack of experience but it seems that if you don't have the ability to have a HID lighting system for whatever reason then Flouros WILL do the job all the way through.
These are not efficient for large plants but I have a plant with a main cola 8 inch tall 5 inch across. Plenty for myself and my mother for a good while. I'll post a pic at some point, i'm having technical issues at the moment.

HIDs win hands down in a lighting battle are certainly much better at penetrating and larger growth for the ladies that we love. Each situation needs to be handled differently, CFLs have their uses, and I'm glad that Flogger and My1952HD have showcased what their capabilities are, thank you fellas.

That's cool daddio, keep it up!

I have a question that has been gnawing at me ever since it came up, and I need to know the answer, if we're going to be comparing apples to apples. I need to know from those of you out there in the highlands, how are you doing this grams per kilo-watt hour calculation?



When one calculates grams per kilowatt hour (which I agree with Harvey is the correct terminology), does one include the kilowatt hours used by all of the ancillary equipment involved, such as multiple fans, blowers, pumps, air conditioning, etc., in the equation? Or are you only including the power that the lights alone use and leaving the rest out?

In one case, the fellow I've been communicating with has stated that he uses four tons of air conditioning for his grow room alone and that his grow room costs him $500.00 a month, however this is "payed by my patients and really does not play a role here" so I assume this is not included.

In my case, I use 0.78kwh for lights, have one 1/16 HP blower (0.047kwh) for odor and heat extraction and one small pump (don't know how many kWh) for my hydro system. I do however have a five ton heat pump for my home of 3,000 sq. ft. and some of this conditioned air is drawn out by the exhaust blower. When I do my next harvest, I wish to give total honest numbers, and am wondering if I will be delivering apples for someone else to compare their oranges to.

Perhaps a moderator can post some sort of standards for this calculation as I see many numbers but have no knowledge as to how they were obtained i.e. apples to apples, apples to oranges, apples to grapes, etc. I personally wish to answer this "true test of any grower and his/her system" question to the best of my ability, and stick with apples.

And, by the way, my total electrical bill for the past month was under $150.00.

Comments to comments on this page...


I think the water temperature will remain in the lower seventies in this flower closet as the room faces NE, with the other outer wall facing NW. It's the coolest room in the house. Also, the cooler air entering at the floor of the closet, pulled in by the exhaust blower, hits the water tubs first.

However there may be a problem in the room that I clone and vegetate in. This room has three outer walls facing SE, SW, and NW, with a total of six windows. The A/C has a supply into the room, but no return. Every other room in the house has it's own return so I leave the door (entering this room) open at all times. It's still the warmest room in the house, thus my water temperatures run higher. So far, they run between seventy-five and seventy-nine degrees. Time will tell...


Cool Harvey (pun intended), I like experimentation. Eighty-one sounds hot, but I'll get there and higher, before the end of summer, if I don't come up with something...


I couldn't agree more... aeration being the key. And not just bubbles, but very fine bubbles and lots of them, as this gives the air more surface area in contact with the water molecules and the roots.

Do it and let me/us know what happens. In the interim, I'm researching diy heat transfer pipes, basically heat pumps without the pump, and water/aquarium chillers, and which gives the most bang for the buck, long and short term. I just had another idea, mounting my air pump in the A/C supply line...


I'm glad to be back to a civilized discussion also, as there is more about my grow that I would like to post on and will in my next post. But I've read some of your posts before and I don't think you give yourself enough credit... you ask good questions and make good comments which inspire some of us to think and do research.

I use CFLs from clone to flower in my grow because it works and I can afford it. I once used a four-hundred watt HPS mounted in the center of a five by two foot closet, with two one-hundred fifty watt HPSs mounted on each side of the larger bulb. It worked too but I couldn't afford it. (and I know, light wise, I'm comparing 0.7 kWh of HPS to 0.78 kWh of CFLs, but it was the temperature and distances that made the difference and inspired my previous post)

And, on behalf of Floger and myself, you're welcome.

A piss poor status update...

My May ninth and twenty-third plants (and I) have gone through some tumultuous times recently causing me to skip loading up my two June sixth plants. My next two will go in on the twentieth of June.

During my last rinse/flush, I unintentionally allowed the tubs to overflow, soaking the towels and hardwood floors underneath. I cleaned and mopped up everything that I could and hoped that what I couldn't, would dry up in time.

Then two more events occurred which made things worse.

First, I ran out of two of my pharmaceutical meds and could not get refills for about three weeks, as I have to get them from a free clinic that does not keep them in stock. Secondly, about the same time, I noticed the beginnings of a gnat invasion.

So, off to the local hydro store for some AzaMax. When I got home and read the dosage instructions, I had to return to the store for a much bigger bottle, and this stuff is expensive.

I had the AzaMax in, along with some tongue depressors with sticky stuff attached as I started withdrawal from the two meds.

I got to where I really didn't give a fack and ignored everything for a couple of weeks, flowers, veggies, clones, and still wet floor. I would stay awake for a couple of days and then sleep for up to twenty-eight hours at a time. I was at my lowest when I realized that the whole thing needed to be re-drained, disassembled and removed from the closet in order to dry the floor.

When the meds came in and I got them back into my system, I finally made myself do all of this. It was quite an undertaking, but now everything is back to normal though I still see an occasional gnat flying around and have purchased another big bottle of AzaMax.

The May ninth plants suffered the most and are slowly recovering though I doubt that I will get the results I was hoping for on July eleventh when they should be ready to harvest.

What I learned...

Do not overfill the tubs!
When I pick up my meds, place another order immediately.
Use AzaMax everywhere.

Enough of this soap opera... on to something else, like cheap reflectors.

How about some real inexpensive reflectors, materials costing less than ten dollars, for CFL bulbs?

I used one automobile windshield reflector (see first attachment) and a few fourteen inch plastic cable ties. This will make ten reflectors.

I started by cutting the reflector in between every other fold. Then I folded each in half with the foil on the inside and laid out the pattern (see second attachment) for half of the reflector to be cut out, cutting both halves at the same time. Punch a hole or cut a slice where the hole is indicated for the plastic tie.

Once you cut out one, use this one to trace out the rest.