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#1577167 - 09/18/09 01:45 PM Re: The Truth About Feminized Seeds * [Re: cannabob1]
sublemon Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/27/09
Posts: 32
Originally Posted By: cannabob1
What kinda freaks me out about this whole feminized seed thing is this; If God created female Cannabis to be eventually self pollinating, then why did he create male Cannaibs plants?


I don't mean to infringe on your religious beliefs (as I understand this issue can be touchy to some), but if you take a look from an evolutionary perspective it kinda does makes sense (it also can show how god would have planned this out, if you prefer to see it from that perspective). The purpose of any sexual reproduction (as opposed to asexual reproduction) is to have more genetically varied offspring. Now I can't speak much in regards to the history of cannabis distribution, but if high altitude or dry climates are the typical natural setting, this would give evidence as to the cause of sexual disparity forming in cannabis.

Most of the time plants can afford to have both male and female flowers since this method of pollination is highly economic and produces a wide variety of genetic combinations. I'm talking about your typical flowering plant such as apple trees, daisies, etc. These plants all rely on insects such as bees, or animals such as hummingbirds in order to carry pollen from one individual plant to another, over a distance. However in arid regions or very high altitudes, there is a proportionally smaller number of such pollinators, hence most pollination would have to be passive.

I will assume that cannabis was a plant that evolved in a relatively harsh environment (desert, very high up etc.). In this case, passive pollination would only be effective across small distances and the majority of seeds formed would simply have the same genetics of the parent. The uniformity of the genotypes would most likely make the plant unable to share genes over large distances. Hence a more passive method of spreading genes would seem to be practical. A simple passive method of spreading pollen or seeds over greater distances is simply to distribute them from a larger height (drop something from higher up, it has more energy to bounce around or more time to be blown around as it falls). However growing in height requires more energy then staying stout, as the energy that goes into stem growth could be invested in light absorbing leaf area. Hence if one plant could invest energy into the production of seeds and another invest in the distribution of pollen, both roles could be fulfilled with the same distribution of energy. This would also explain the male phenotype which is taller and less bushy then the females (in general).

Having stout female plants would also have the added benefit of distributing seeds in more or less favorable ground. The logic progresses in this manner... The cannabis plant generally grows in an environment that is hostile to most other plants (high temps, arid, high amounts of UV, etc.) If a plant has lived long enough and is healthy enough to invest energy in seeds, it must have developed on ground that is favorable to cannabis. Hence by distributing seeds in earth that is in close proximity, you have a higher chance of dropping seeds on good ground (since the plant 'knew' that the ground near it is fertile). The assumption of an arid environment being the setting for the development of cannabis is further supported by the nutritional content of hemp seeds. In less hospitable soil, a larger amount of energy would have to be invested in the offspring to ensure that they would last long enough to develop their own feeding system, thus the high nutrition content of hemp seed.

If a plant is stressed, its genetics most likely are not matching up with its environment. Hence attempting to trade genes to develop a variation of strains is highly profitable (for the genes if you're an evolutionary theorist). In the situation that a plant was not under much stress, the conditions would perfectly match the genetics of the plant. Therefore there would not be as much of a need to attempt to trade genes by sexual reproduction, and the ideal would be to simply create more copies of the successful plant (i.e. self pollinate). This would have both the benefits mentioned above, and also the added benefit of ensuring that the next generation would be suited for the environment the mother plant grew so well in.

I've tried to keep as many evolutionary terms out of this, but I hope I've managed not to offend any anti-evolutionists whilst not disappoint any supporters of evolutionary theory. Evolutionists may understand the principles behind my theory, but if it was god then it isn't so 'weird' that he made 2 sexes, he knew exactly what he was doing when he created the cannabis plant smile.



Edited by sublemon (09/18/09 01:49 PM)
Edit Reason: Typoz :(...

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#1578242 - 09/22/09 08:21 AM Re: The Truth About Feminized Seeds [Re: sublemon]
Cannabisto Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 4
Loc: If ignorance is bliss, than th...
So are we weakening future generations of cannabis with the massive amount of clone reproduction and not doing enough of widescale genetic reproduction?
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#1578775 - 09/23/09 08:12 PM Re: The Truth About Feminized Seeds [Re: Cannabisto]
sublemon Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/27/09
Posts: 32
Not necessarily "weakening". We may be creating strains that are better suited for 'ideal' environments to produce bud, so therefore they may not be as well adapted to other environments. However left alone for several generations sexed plants will eventually mutate into a strong strain.

Inbreeding may occur after several generations due to the collection of deleterious genes, however that will probably take a long while to happen as it would require the homogenization of the species (which doesn't happen thanks to breeders who specialize in a WIDE variety of strains rather then a select few.)

Natures must more resilient then you think when left to its own processes....

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#1582289 - 10/06/09 09:57 AM Re: The Truth About Feminized Seeds [Re: Earl]
himpthedimp Offline
Journeyman
*

Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 69
Loc: southern california
With sales comes marketing. Most of the things advertised for growing are over rated and targeted towards the new grower that has not paid their dues. Until a grower becomes inclined to read text books as apposed to a magazine or a how to book;their success will rely on luck or their ability to extract knowledge from those of us that take a scientific approach to learning. The difference between a grower and a breeder is this: A GROWER ONLY HAS FEMALE PLANTS-A BREEDER HAS MALES AS WELL. if things go as we would like and one day seeds become noncriminal, supply and demand will become a serious problem. Pay you dues. We are talking about a plant. Botany, Plant physiology etc. Knowledge is king and so is the male plant. To thine own self be true! Rely on you!!!!!

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#1583149 - 10/08/09 09:19 PM Re: The Truth About Feminized Seeds [Re: himpthedimp]
RollMeOneKenobi Offline
Veteran
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Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 1332
Loc: Zion
What do you all think about these strains from Nirvana
Kaya : Mexican Sativa X Topp 44 female clone forced to prodce pollen
Venus: Pure Power Plant X Top 44 clone forced to produce male pollen
Wonder Women: ICE X Top 44 clone forced to produce male pollen
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"Make the most of the Indian Hemp seed, and plant it everywhere!" George Washington.

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#1597026 - 11/23/09 06:09 AM Re: The Truth About Feminized Seeds [Re: RollMeOneKenobi]
richi420 Offline
Member
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Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 141
Loc: Garden City, Canada
Feminized seeds are not the problem.The problem comes from people who are just in it for money and dont care or from people that dont know what they are doing.GHS suck ass plain and simple and the same with Dutch Passions,I never grew any nirvana seeds as I didnt like there genetics from what I seen before.
The only reason why feminized seeds will give you more of a chance for hermies is from bad breeding.If you take the seeds from the selfed plant you`ll end up with girls that with the slightest change to turn hermie.If the breeder actually understands plant biology then this wouldnt be such a problem. Over all feminized seeds are not worth buying as people charge way to much money for them.I have seft quite a few plants and have not had a single hermie even after doing stress tests with them.I have had more regular seeds turn hermie them feminized seeds. I actually had a feminized WW from FMS(I think thats what he calls his bank) and it turned hermie on me,made me mad as hell and didnt catch it till it was almost to late.Some people need to understqnd that feminized does not mean all females.You will end up with a male every 1000 or so seeds,thats normal.but some will see this and bitch about what a waste of money the feminized seeds are.But too many people just care about money and not about the plant or the people.Just look at GHS he said that he wants cannabis to stay illegal because it means more money for himself.Dont support GHS,if you want the real breeds order from Mr.Nice seeds. I personally think most seed banks charge way to much money for seeds.Theres no reason why seeds should cost any more then $50 even for feminized.Regular seeds make more sence as if you find a killer pheno you can keep it going.This is why I breed and dont buy from most seed banks,there are a few who care more about this plant then about money,TGA,Mr.Nice,Seeds of Freedom,Peak seeds to name a few.Seeds of freedom and peak seeds are the cheapest but not cheap in genetics..
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#1597120 - 11/23/09 01:45 PM Re: The Truth About Feminized Seeds [Re: richi420]
Nature Boy Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Registered: 04/26/09
Posts: 2302
Loc: On the planets skin.
Im going with gh next year. Seen lots of kick ass plants on other forrums and no one got hermies from gh seeds.I dont know why alot of people here are pissed about fems so much? Il just have to see for myself plain and simple although im still a bean regular bean
fanatic but you have to admit that digging dirt for unwanted males is hard work but at the same token you need 1000's of males to get the 'special'ones..
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#1597192 - 11/23/09 06:29 PM Re: The Truth About Feminized Seeds [Re: Nature Boy]
richi420 Offline
Member
*

Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 141
Loc: Garden City, Canada
Green House seeds are a waste of money,and they hermie the most,just ask around.I also wont support a seed bank that doesnt support legalization.GHS are not what they used to be,he's only in it for the money not for the love of the plants.He sends the seeds from the selft plant too,which is not good.One hermie,one tiny little ball will ruin most of your crop,not worth wasting your money on GHS.If you want the real versions of his plants you have to go to Mr.Nice seeds. I rarly ever hear anything good about GHS for aboiut 8 or so years now.If you want to buy from them you can,of course,but just trying to save you the headache and your money.
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FREE MARC EMERY AND ALL P.O.W.
"It's dangerous to be right when the government is wrong"

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#1597262 - 11/24/09 01:34 AM Re: The Truth About Feminized Seeds [Re: richi420]
Nature Boy Offline
Carpal Tunnel
**

Registered: 04/26/09
Posts: 2302
Loc: On the planets skin.
Ya il think about it, thanks for the heads up though pass
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Earthworm excreta, nature’s most remarkable form of bio-fertilizer and bio-pest control agent.

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#1605333 - 12/23/09 06:02 PM Re: The Truth About Feminized Seeds [Re: XFiremanX]
DVSONE Offline
Stranger

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 7
got one for everyone....been doing it to prove it with better results....

got a hermie then pollinate it with another male before it can its self.....

i get a few few fucked up plants from seeds though.. email for more info

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