Pffft.... Go tell that to some chillum smoking sadhu in India as he contemplates on the onenesss of Lord Shiva, who sits in the Himilayas in deep meditation perpetually stoned on bhang, Sonny.

I have to politely disagree with Nature Boy but only insofar as to say - and this is my opinion, but based on study of both meditation and the history of mystical and occult practice - that someone completely untrained with any form of meditation technique or any form of mental training will get less out of the use of plant entheogens in combination that someone with some form of training, no matter how small.

Crowley was pretty convinced of the efficacy of hashish or cannabis as a useful helper as am I, but even more useful in the context of a system of thought. The ability to differentiate and observe passively your own inner monologue while being a passive quiet observer would be of great use here as would some elementary skill in self hypnotism.

All meditation is, basically (as illustrated in Lawrence LeShan's basic book on the subject) is first, stilling the noise of your own thoughts by learning to keep the mind occupied on one thought at a time, then, reducing the single thought to "no-thought". As Thomas Merton said of this state, "How rare the hour and how brief it's duration."

To make absolute statements like "you can't meditate while under the influence of "x" just seems to me, with all due respect, to be a little pedantic. There is, obviously a tradition of this plants use for just that going back close to ten thousand years... and not everyone's inner world will mesh with one's own inner experience.

Your mileage will vary of course.

Speaking of "meditative" effects...I experienced what I thought was an odd experience of spontaneous ideomotor effect added in Psychonaut forum, any feedback appreciated.

If you really meditated,The right way,You wouldn't need any exterior influences,Which is all it is.The only thing you need is yourself in a quiet place.Maybe you can meditate while high but you certainly don't need it and it most likely hinders your attempts.this comes from a couple that are x-stoners that teach meditation classes,They quit the herb years ago because meditation is all that they needed,To meditate.Which is simply doing nothing and thinking nothing but nothing is something.

Well as someone who has meditated both while under the influence and not, and only able to speak for myself rather than make any broad sweeping statements about what is or is not possible regarding meditation (as such would be both outside my experience and frankly the scope of my or frankly the knowledge of most individuals in this day and age including, imho a couple of ex-stoners teaching meditation) the experience is simply different, not better or worse.

The shamanic experience, that of the "vegitalista" is not to be scoffed at, belittled or looked down upon as inferior to the non-entheogen user. That said, without any kind of initiation or training, wandering in without any roadmap might not be of practical value, unless one is gifted with a superlative sense of discipline, creativity and imagination and is some kind of natural shaman which, I would assume, most of us are not.

But this talk of a "right way" is, frankly, sounding more than a touch patronizing... I don't know if you intend it that way, but for those of us who have meditated before and do know a little about the subject and that meditation is more than just guided imagining or mindful thinking...well, that's how it comes off. It tends to put people on the defensive when put that way.

Meditating is a lot like masturbating.

If you really masturbate, the right way, you wouldn't need any exterior influences like porn. The only thing you need is yourself in a quiet place. Maybe you can masturbate while viewing porn but you certainly don't need it and it most likely hinders your attempts to achieve ultimate orgasm control.

Porn is overrated.Good point masterbater.

Nature Boy, that may be what your "New Age" ex stoner teachers tell you, but go to India, and you will find lots of chillum smoking and bhang drinking yogis who will tell you different. Meditation comes from the cult of Shiva, the Lord of Bhang. Yoga is about killing the illusion of duality and unifying it in your mind by focussing on the pure attention energy at the core of consciousness. Ganja increases attentionand is an aid in that process, not a deterent.
I think you should go back and read through what has already been posted in this thread.......

Madfiddler, you might find this article on crowley and cannabis of interest.... http://www.gnostics.com/numbers-4.html

Excellent essay Chris, and I did read this one before...Crowley's opinion has had some influence on mine...I am in agreement with his aphorism...“…take my word for nothing: try all things; hold fast that which is good!”

The benefits of meditation include complete stress relief, slows down heart rate and breathing, and normalizing blood pressure. If you learn how to meditate properly, the adrenal glands will produce less cortisol; and the immune system will improve. People who meditate can easily quit unhealthy habits such as smoking, drugs or drinking. Indeed, learning how to meditate properly can have life changing effects on any person.