Warning new off gassing product!!!!

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So I have been experiencing a mysterious yellowing for about 10 months. Every thing that went into one of my 11 different rooms (some that had been going 5+ years) started to yellow and eventually die. My first instinct was my ph I checked my pens, they were not very far off but I calibrated and bought new probes anyways. That did nothing. Then we suspected the nutes, maybe we got a bad batch. I had bought 6 gallon jugs and filled all my 1 gal’s up off the same batch. Call the company run the batch numbers and they say they are 18 months old, So we went out bought new nutes and nothing changed. So after that I figured my favorite brand had fallen off and we decided to try another brand. We go buy $1000 worth of canna. And we thought possibly it could be something with our clones so we picked up a batch of clones from an LA club. Same thing new nutes new genetics same yellowing. So now I am scratching my head start making some calls visit a bunch of other rooms, and at least 20 in my immediate area have this same mystery problem. So I do some research find out we are all on the same water supply. I found 4 rooms on another water district doing bitching so I say BINGO, It must be the water. We go out and buy a 275 gallon tote and start buying water from this other district. A real pain in the ass I might add we had to do 2-3 trips a week to meet our demands. Same problem. We start doing testing 1st water test, 2nd tissues sample, I have a horticulturist come and look at things. He suggests an Iron def. We get our tests back everything looks good. We do a tissue sample off a room that is doing good compare our results and everything is fine. Except my plants still look like shit. So I emailed my test results to my original nute company they pass it around the office and let everyone take a look at it. I get a call a couple of days later from them and he asks me if I have ever considered off gassing. What is crazy is the night before I found a thread on the hydro huts and was showing my partner how Identical it looked. So now we go to our rooms and start looking around at what it could possibly be. Like I said some rooms had been going in the same location with nothing changed in about 5 years. There is only 1 new product that we had replaced the ½ tube that connects all the buckets. I started to call around and every room that was having the problem had replaced there tube with the new stuff. The 4 rooms that were doing good were using old hose and was just washing it out. So being lazy saved theses guys who would of thought. I have been talking to the company that made the offending tube for 4 months and they do not wish to resolve this problem even though I have proof that the toxic chemical is in the tube. We have done GC/MS testing, LC/MS, testing and FT IR testing that show conclusively that the chemical Diisobutyl phthalate is in the tube. This is the same chemical that caused the problems with the hydro huts. If you are having a mysterious yellowing and are using NGW tube replace it immediately and please respond to this thread. I am going to be working on a class action against these guys. I have some of the worlds top experts on the matter willing to testify and do any research needed to win this case. The idiots printed there names on the tube it has n-g-w.com printed every foot, so it is easy to identify.


Here is a brief description of what the phthalate does to the plants.

The toxicity caused by a volatile constituent from certain samples of flexible polyvinyl chloride (PVC)
was due to dibutyl or diisobutyl phthalate (DBP or DIBP) plasticisers. It has caused serious financial
losses in the horticultural industry. The two phthalate esters have low volatilities, so any toxicity lasts
for many years. Radish (Raphanus sativus L. cv. Cherry Belle) seedlings, exposed to an air stream
containing 160-180 ng dm~3 of butyl phthalates developed chlorotic leaves within 3-4 d and died
within 12 d. Neither dioctyl nor diisodecyl phthalate (DOP nor DIDP) produced damage in the test
plants. Measurements of photosynthetic and respiratory gas exchange in intact shoots of affected
radishes showed that photosynthesis was severely inhibited whilst respiration was virtually
unaffected. Electron micrographs of sections from young leaves showed disruption of thylakoid
formation and granal stacking. In mature leaves, thylakoids and grana were well formed but
chloroplasts were swollen and the thylakoids were pushed towards the vacuolar side of the
chloroplast. Sensitivity to toxic phthalates varies between species; all members of the Crucifcrae tested
were susceptible, tomato less so, and lettuce and ryegrass were resistant. Toxicity of DIBP, from PVC
glazing strip, caused a reduction in crop value of £20000 per acre per year in commercially grown,
monocrop tomatoes.




The effects of phthalate esters on chlorophyll a2 fluorescence in radish plants (Raphanus sativus L. cv.
Cherry Belle) were examined Fluorescence yield was increased in those plants exposed to an aerial
concentration of 120 ng dm"3 dibutyl phthalate (DBP) at a rate of 3-0 dm3 min"1 for 13 d.
Comparison of fluorescence enhancement ratios and Fr^/F01 suggests that DBP inhibits photosynthesis
in radish plants at a site after QA. Both DBP and diisobutyl phthalate (DIBP) strongly
inhibited uncoupled (PS2 + PS1) electron transport rates in thylakoids isolated from spinach. At a
chlorophyll concentration of 10 /ig cm"3 the concentrations of DBP and DIBP exhibiting 50%
inhibition were 44 mmol m " 3 and 42 mmol m " 3 respectively. Basal electron transport rates were also
inhibited, with 87 mmol m"3 of DBP or DIBP producing 50% inhibition. Measurement of
photosystem 1 activity suggested that the main site of action of these phthalates was localized at a site
near the reducing side of photosystem 2.


ECA #10281

The analysis of the samples has been completed and the results are given below. The sample information is:
______________________________ ____________________ ________________
Customer Identification: PVT Tube
Sample #: 10281a
Date Received: 7-12-10
Test Requested: Identification and Quantification of Phthalate(s)
USP <851> FTIR with quantitative extraction.

Sample Results
PVT Tube
15.95% diisobutylphthalate
FTIR spectrum matches well with diisobutylphthalate library spectra and reference standard.

Default Hydro Huts Causing Plant Deficiencies and Death
There is an issue with Hydro Huts, Sun Huts and all grow tents manufactured in China that some of you may be aware of. However, there haven't been any threads here at the Bay dealing with the problems that Hydro Huts are causing on plant growth or the lack thereof. So, I thought I would start this thread to make everyone aware of what is going on and Texas Kid will be along shortly to share with you the recent remedy being implemented by Hydro Hut, specifically, for all Hydro Hut users experencing these problems.

First of all, in the last few months, Hydro Hut users from around the globe have been reporting problems both in online forums as well as directly to the manufacturer. The problem they are reporting is that within days of plants being put into SOME Hydro Huts, the plants start exhibiting extremely slowed growth followed by severe yellow of the leaves with only the veins remaining green. The pictures posted up by these growers show what would normally look exactly like a SEVERE Cal/Mag and/or Iron deficiency. This severe yellowing in many cases was followed by necrosis of the leaf and, ultimately, death of the plants.


The following are pics of plants from FIVE SEPERATE Hydro Hut users and this is from just one thread found at ICMag.

Picture provided by SkillsBot2935


Picture provided by BudZad7


Picture provided by KissOfDeath


Picture provided by streetgreen



You can clearly see the similarity in all of the plants and this is a SERIOUS problem for those who have these affected Huts/Tents.

************************************************** ******
Important Notice - Not ALL Hydro Huts, Sun Huts and other Chinese manufactured Grow Tents are affected. The problem is affected in SOME units manufactured in Summer 2007 and forward.
************************************************** ******

After much speculation, conjecture and experimentation by many growers and Hydro Hut themselves, the problem has been traced to a base polymer in the plastic used to manufacture the white PVC lining inside the tent. Apparently, there is some toxin emitted from this base polymer that is causing a SYSTEMIC lockout of Magnesium and/or Iron. Note that I stated "Systemic", meaning uptake from the roots is inhibited in some way. This condition can be SOMEWHAT managed by foliar feeding with Cal/Mag and it will retard the process but NOT cure it.

Hydro Hut, Sun Hut and the other Chinese manufactured grow tents all purchase their tent canvas from the same supplier in Japan as this Japanese company has the only machine in the whole Orient that bonds the canvas to the PVC. The reason we know this is because all the various brands of grow tents mentioned are assembled in the same plant in China using the same canvas purchased from the Japanese supplier.



The following pics from Tricknology show just how fast the onset of the problem occurs.

Healthy Plant - Day 1 Just Prior to going into Hydro Hut


Three Days Later in Hydro Hut the yellowing ensues


Day 5 in Hydro Hut the yellowing is already severe


After 7 Days in the Hut





I wanted to make any Hydro Hut users here at the Bay aware of this potential problem and let you know not to worry as Evan, the owner of Hydro Hut, has been and is standing behind his products. As I stated at the top of this post, TK will be along shortly to post up the manifesto directly from Hydro Hut that will tell you how you can get your Hydro Hut fixed through their "proprietary process" at no charge to the user.

To this point, I am not aware of any efforts being made by Sunlight Supply/National Garden Wholesale (the maunfacturers of the Sun Hut) or any of the various manufacturers of other Chinese made tents to remedy this problem in their products. Only Hydro Hut, so far, has made extensive efforts to correct the deficiency. Anyone experincing problems with grow tents other than Hydro Hut should contact the manufacturer to make them aware of this problem as they not not even be aware themselves yet.

It is important to note here that neither the Homebox XL (which is manufactured in Germany) or the Dark Room Grow Tent (manufactured in France) exhibit these problems. So anyone owning the Homebox or the Dark Room would be exempt from this alert.

Stay tuned to this thread for more information on the topic from TK!


RB

There healthy plant going in..


Mine (ok so it wasn't that healthy, I thing the problem was already starting to yeild it's head from being in my VEG unit, with the tubing)


theirs after 5 days..



Mine...


Theirs after 7days..




Mine..





Compelling..

maybe try flushing everything out Deb and running no nutes for a day or two and see what happens, what you got to lose and best of luck

Did Sunlight Supply Poison Hydroponics Medical Marijuana?

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A few years ago, professional state-legal California medical marijuana growers noticed their hydroponics crops were showing yellowing leaves, stunted growth, and poor yields. In some cases, entire crop cycles were wiped out.

The growers lost huge amounts of sleep, money and valuable medical marijuana, nearly going crazy trying to understand what was killing their crops. They examined all the factors you’re supposed to examine when you have crop problems: pH, water quality, nutrients, climate control, pests, diseases, plant genetics. You name it, they looked at it.

Through a process of elimination they narrowed the cause down to a toxin called Diisobutyl phthalate (DIBP) allegedly contained in National Garden Wholesale (NGW) ½” Black Flexible Polyvinyl Chloride Tubing. NGW is an affiliate of hydroponics distributor Sunlight Supply, and all three entities are also known or affiliated as IP Holdings LLC.

The hydroponics growers say they had tests run, and conducted tests themselves. Convinced by the testing that NGW tubing was the culprit, they contacted Sunlight Supply and NGW, seeking an explanation and compensation. They got nowhere, so they retained an attorney, Jeffrey Lake. After Lake contacted Sunlight/NGW, he received an August, 2010 letter from an attorney representing the companies. The attorney is named Joshua Stump.

Mr. Stump’s letter offers various attacks dismissing the growers’ claim that NGW tubing damaged their crops. It also contains a troubling section in which Stump says that regardless of whether the growers’ crops were legal according to California law, they were still illegal under federal law. As such, the lawyer claimed, the “illegality” of the medical marijuana enterprise would likely protect Sunlight/NGW from product liability claims.

Stump further hones in on the medical marijuana aspects of the situation by asking all kinds of prying questions about the identity and confidential financial and/or medical history of medical marijuana patients and growers.

Medical marijuana attorneys who examine Stump’s letter say Stump’s approach leaves the impression that Sunlight/NGW is making a veiled threat to harass and/or nark out medical marijuana growers and patients as part of the Sunlight Supply defense strategy should the hydroponics growers file a product liability claim.

On November 22, 2010, Lake and his client plaintiffs (referred to as BT Collective) filed a class action complaint against IP/NGW/Sunlight in San Diego County Superior Court.

During my research about DIBP and other toxins that might enter plants via hydroponics materials, I learned that such chemicals may harm humans as well as hydroponics plants. I also discovered a substantial record of complaints and concerns regarding toxicity problems associated with indoor hydroponics grow tents and chambers made from plastics and other materials.

Beginning in 2006-07, an increasing flood of hydroponics growers began complaining in online hydroponics cultivation forums and elsewhere about off-gassing and poisoning caused by toxins in hydroponics grow tent materials and similar materials. Hydroponics growers told me they’d had problems with indoor chambers made or distributed by HydroHut, Sunlight Supply and other companies.

Reports from growers indicate that of the tent/chamber manufacturers whose customers were complaining about toxic materials, only HydroHut exercised good customer service in seeking to resolve the issues.

In preparation for writing this article, I directly contacted Sunlight Supply to ask them about their tubing and the court filing, and I had previously posted a hydroponics article containing public questions for Sunlight Supply. The only response I ever got from Sunlight Supply was one email from Stump.

But instead of providing the information that hydroponics growers need to know about Sunlight Supply products and the Sunlight Supply customer service and warranty policies, Stump tried to get me to disclose information about myself.

I was leaked what is purportedly a communication sent to hydroponics dealers from Sunlight Supply’s president, Craig Hargreaves, regarding BT Collective’s claims about NGW tubing. I am including the letter in its entirety, because I want to make sure that Sunlight Supply’s version of events is represented fairly. Here is the letter Hargreaves allegedly sent to his retailers:



Craig R. Hargreaves

“I write to you today to discuss a matter pertaining to our Eco-Plus ½ inch black (part # 708235) and blue (part # 708225) branded tubing. Sunlight Supply/NGW has purchased this tubing from a Chinese manufacturer for approximately 3 years now and have sold it without any complaints from our customers. However, we recently received a single complaint from a group called "The BT Collective", a group out of Southern California stating that use of this tubing has caused damage to their crop. When we were first notified of this complaint we requested additional information to help us verify the claim. While the BT Collective responded to this request with additional claims, they failed to provide adequate information to determine whether any of the tubing had caused harm to their crops.

The claim cites that a certain chemical used in the makeup of the tubing, is specifically responsible. To date, we have no credible evidence that this chemical, which is used to give plastic products a soft, pliable feel, has caused any harm to any customer's crops.

Sunlight Supply/National Garden Wholesale has purchased and sold this tubing for 3 years. In this timeframe, we have not received a single complaint from any storeowner or consumer before hearing from the BT Collective. In our experience, when there is a product on the market which is causing plant damage, that problem is quickly discovered. Our customers understandably care a lot about their plants and tend to report problems immediately after they are discovered. In short, we believe that if there were truly a problem with the tubing we have sold, we would have heard about it from customers long before now and from multiple sources. We have not.

Further, when we first started purchasing this tubing, we conducted internal tests by growing plants fertilized and irrigated with water running through the tubing and simultaneously submerged a full 100-foot roll in the reservoir. Our internal tests revealed no damage to the plants.

Sunlight Supply/NGW is a distributor of thousands of different products manufactured by hundreds of different manufactures. Black ½ inch vinyl tubing (the vast majority of sales) is a commodity product both for the industry and us. Sunlight Supply/NGW has no good reason to believe that the tubing it has been purchasing from its Chinese manufacturer causes harm to plants. However, rather than engage in a complex scientific debate, it is far easier for us to merely change tubing vendors.

Out of an abundance of caution, here are the steps we have taken:

Discontinued purchasing from the previous Chinese vendor for the Eco-Plus branded ½ black (product #708235) and blue (product # 708225) vinyl tubing.

Discontinued selling to Dealer Partners these 2 products.

Clarification - The Chinese manufacturer made only 2 of the tubing products (1/2" black and 1/2" blue). No complaints have been received related to any other tubing products in the dealer catalog (page 262).

Changed over to a domestic (USA) supplier on ½ inch black and blue vinyl tubing. These products will now be sold under the Gro-Pro brand name. For inventory clarification, the part numbers have changed. GroPro brand ½ inch black tubing is part #708265, ½ inch blue tubing is part #708260.

All orders now shipping, on ½ inch black and blue vinyl are now made in the USA and have been certified by the manufacturer as, "food grade" and made with only FDA approved materials.

In a good faith show of support for you, our valued business partners, we are offering to take back for credit or exchange (for the USA GroPro brand product) this tubing from any dealer partner wishing to return the Eco-Plus brand ½ inch black or blue tubing. Please contact your local customer service representative with any such requests.

Sunlight Supply/National Garden Wholesale takes our obligation to provide our Dealer Partners with quality, safe and functional products extremely seriously as we have for the last 15 years. At this time, we have no verifiable evidence beyond the BT Collectives claim, that plants irrigated and fertilized through EcoPlus brand ½ inch black and blue has caused damage to plants. However, we felt obligated to inform our Valued Dealer Partners of this matter.

As always, thank you for your ongoing support of our company.

Craig R. Hargreaves, President

Obviously, if you are using an indoor hydroponics pre-made chamber, or thinking of buying one, be sure to ask the manufacturer about toxic off-gassing and warranties. In general, you need to be cautious when using any plastic or other petroleum-based material in your grow room, and do what you can to determine if it might off-gas anything that harms you or your plants.

Please note that Big Mike Straumietis of Advanced Nutrients has repeatedly charged that Sunlight Supply and its allies are amoral profiteers who refuse to respect or acknowledge the medical marijuana community or legal hydroponics medical marijuana growers, but they do like to make tons of money selling them hydroponics products.

You’ll note for example that in the Sunlight Supply letter you just read, Craig Hargreaves offers only to reimburse “dealer partners” (retailers) for unused NGW ½ inch tubing. He makes no offer to reimburse growers who say they’ve lost tens of thousands of dollars worth of medical marijuana crops because of that tubing.

“The issue of whether NGW tubing poisoned crops will be explored scientifically, I hope. What worries medical marijuana growers is a big hydroponics company that responds to a warranty issue by hiring a lawyer who hides behind medical marijuana being illegal federally,” said a hydroponics grower not affiliated with BT Collective. “We already knew that Sunlight, Hydrofarm, Maximum Yield, Urban Garden and the rest of those types are hypocrites who won’t allow any mention of medical marijuana growers at their trade shows and in their magazines, even though medical marijuana growers are a majority of hydroponics customers. But when Sunlight Supply uses federal marijuana law to shield itself against claims from hydroponics growers whose crops got ruined, that’s worse than hypocrisy.”

Okay, so I just started this info yesterday and now I see someone has posted the whole article.

This is just outrageous and Sunlight Supply shouldn't get away with this sort of poor quality behavior.

If people can, please pass this link around to other boards to make sure that no one else gets hurt from poor quality products.

http://www.rosebudmag.com/growers/hydrop...-marijuana.html

We need to make sure that growers are always safe and that they can trust the equipment they buy.