Considering it takes a lot of thermite to burn just a tiny little hole, how do you suppose they kept tens of thousands of pounds hidden from workers?

Take off your tinfoil hats and read this please.

It has science and equations and stuff too.

1) Your source isn't a peer reviewed journal.

2) Your source does not disprove anything that has been taken as fact in the only peer reviewed journals that have published on the subject:

In April 2008, Jones, along with four other authors, published a letter in The Bentham Open Civil Engineering Journal, titled, 'Fourteen Points of Agreement with Official Government Reports on the World Trade Center Destruction'[37]. And in August 2008, Jones, along with Kevin Ryan and James Gourley, published a peer-reviewed article in The Environmentalist, titled, 'Environmental anomalies at the World Trade Center: evidence for energetic materials'.[38].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones

14 points:

http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCIEJ/2008/00000002/00000001/35TOCIEJ.SGM


HTML version:

http://www.911blogger.com/node/15081


"With publication in an established civil engineering journal, the discussion has reached a new level – JREF'ers and others may attack, but unless they can also get published in a peer-reviewed journal, those attacks do not carry nearly the weight of a peer-reviewed paper. It may be that debunkers will try to avoid the fourteen issues we raise in the Letter, by attacking the author(s) or even the journal rather than addressing the science – that would not surprise me.

Professor Chomsky wrote to several, who passed it on to me:

"You, or anyone who agrees with you, has a very simple task. Since the evidence is so obvious and compelling, submit an article about it to Science, or Nature, or even Scientific American, or more technical journals, say those in civil engineering, where your article can refute the conclusions of the professional society of civil engineers… To date, no one has been willing to submit an article -- at least, after probably hundreds of inquiries to Truth Movement advocates, no one has been able to mention one..."

Would someone who has received this note from Prof. Chomsky please send him a copy of the downloaded paper? Perhaps we can build a bridge with him. You might note that the paper is published in a "technical journal [one of those] in civil engineering," to use his own words, which I took as sort of a challenge. I have published before in Nature (e.g., May 1986 and April 1989) AND Scientific American (July 1987), and this paper in a civil engineering journal I consider to be a very significant step in the history."

http://www.911blogger.com/node/15081


Environmental anomalies:

http://911reports.wordpress.com/2008/09/...steven-e-jones/

3) Your source doesn't disprove any of the following:

Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13049



4) Your source doesn't even disprove any of the mountain of suspicious or criminal evidence piling up on this highly credible website:

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=theme&themeId=18




All your source does is apply weak arguments to cherry picked weak arguments. Period.

You can't debate with a conspiracy nut.

I read the report published. Nowhere did it state that explosives were the cause of any of it. They just found some material.

Any viewpoint is bogus to a conspiracy theorist if it doesn't end with "The government did it!".

The simplest answer is usually the right one.

That has been proven again and again.

All the materials required to create thermite were in the building materials used to build the WTC. That seems to escape the conspiracy theorist.

It can only be the big bad government.

Edit: I am referring only to the original reporting of the findings of material in the debris, nothing else.

The buildings were made out of aluminum and iron/ steel. Thats what you need to get thermite.
If it were made out of peanut butter and chocolate, Podpeople would swear this was proof the CIA or Fire department smuggled Reeses peanutbutter cups into the buildings.
BTW the fire department doesn't usually bring Reeses peanutbutter cups or thermite on the trucks here in America to a fire.

"The buildings were made out of aluminum and iron/ steel. Thats what you need to get thermite."

Thermite and thermate are dust. When buildings fall down they make big chunks of buildings ... sometimes little chunks of buildings - you need explosives to make all that dust.

Let's review the list of things proven to be true in one of the peer reviewed papers:



Fourteen Points of Agreement with Official Government Reports on the
World Trade Center Destruction
Steven E. Jones*
,1
, Frank M. Legge
2
, Kevin R. Ryan
3
, Anthony F. Szamboti*
,4
and James R.
Gourley
5
1
S&J Scientific Co., Provo, UT, 84604, USA
2
Logical Systems Consulting, Perth, Western Australia, Australia
3
Bloomington, IN 47401, USA
4
Blackwood, NJ 08012, USA
5
Dallas, TX 75231, USA
Abstract: Reports by FEMA and NIST lay out the official account of the destruction of the World Trade Center on
9/11/2001. In this Letter, we wish to set a foundation for productive discussion and understanding by focusing on those
areas where we find common ground with FEMA and NIST, while at the same time countering several popular myths
about the WTC collapses.
Keywords: World Trade Center, 9/11, Total collapse, Pancake theory, Momentum conservation, Residues.
INTRODUCTION
On September 11, 2001, the Twin Towers of the World
Trade Center (WTC) were hit by airplanes. Total destruction
of these high-rises at near free-fall speeds ensued within two
hours, and another high-rise which was not hit by a plane
(WTC 7) collapsed about seven hours later at 5:20 p.m.
The US Congress laid out the charge specifically to the
National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) to
“Determine why and how WTC 1 and WTC 2 collapsed fol-
lowing the initial impacts of the aircraft and why and how
WTC 7 collapsed” [1]. The Federal Emergency Management
Agency (FEMA) was acting with a similar motivation in
their earlier study of these tragic collapses [2]. NIST and
FEMA were not charged with finding out how fire was the
specific agent of collapse, yet both evidently took that lim-
ited approach while leaving open a number of unanswered
questions. Our goal here is to set a foundation for scientific
discussion by enumerating those areas where we find agree-
ment with NIST and FEMA. Understanding the mechanisms
that led to the destruction of the World Trade Center will
enable scientists and engineers to provide a safer environ-
ment for people using similar buildings and benefit firefight-
ers who risk their lives trying to save others.
DISCUSSION
1. WTC 7 Collapse Issue
FEMA: “The specifics of the fires in WTC 7 and how
they caused the building to collapse remain unknown at this
time. Although the total diesel fuel on the premises con-
*Address correspondence to this author at the S&J Scientific Company, 190
East 4680 North, Provo, Utah, USA; Tel: 801-735-5885; Fax: 801-422-
0553; E-mail: HardEvidence@gmail.com
4 Hawthorne Court, Blackwood, NJ, 08012, USA; Tel: 856-228-4747;
E-mail: tonyszamboti@comcast.net
tained massive potential energy, the best hypothesis has only
a low probability of occurrence. Further research, investiga-
tion, and analyses are needed to resolve this issue” [2].
FEMA analyzed the remarkable collapse of WTC build-
ing 7, the 47-story skyscraper that, even though it was not hit
by a plane, collapsed about seven hours after the second
Tower collapse. We certainly agree that FEMA’s best fire-
based hypothesis “has only a low probability of occurrence.”
NIST’s final report on WTC 7 has been long delayed and is
eagerly awaited [3]. Apparently it is difficult to fully explain
the complete and rapid collapse of WTC 7 with a fire-based
hypothesis alone.
2. Withstanding Jet Impact
FEMA: “The WTC towers had been designed to with-
stand the accidental impact of a Boeing 707 seeking to land
at a nearby airport…” [2]
NIST: “Both WTC 1 and WTC 2 were stable after the
aircraft impact, standing for 102 min and 56 min, respec-
tively. The global analyses with structural impact damage
showed that both towers had considerable reserve capacity”
[4].
Yes, we agree, as do previously published reports: “The
110-story towers of the World Trade Center were designed
to withstand as a whole the forces caused by a horizontal
impact of a large commercial aircraft. So why did a total
collapse occur?” [5]
John Skilling, a leading structural engineer for the WTC
Towers, was interviewed in 1993 just after a bomb in a truck
went off in the North Tower:
"We looked at every possible thing we could think
of that could happen to the buildings, even to the
extent of an airplane hitting the side," said John
Skilling, head structural engineer….
Page 2
36 The Open Civil Engineering Journal, 2008, Volume 2
Jones et al.
Concerned because of a case where an airplane hit
the Empire State Building [which did not col-
lapse], Skilling's people did an analysis that
showed the towers would withstand the impact of
a Boeing 707.
"Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would
be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane)
would dump into the building. There would be a
horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed,"
he said. "The building structure would still be
there."
Skilling - a recognized expert in tall buildings -
doesn't think a single 200-pound car bomb would
topple or do major structural damage to a Trade
Center tower. The supporting columns are closely
spaced and even if several were disabled, the oth-
ers would carry the load.
…Although Skilling is not an explosives expert,
he says there are people who do know enough
about building demolition to bring a structure like
the Trade Center down.
"I would imagine that if you took the top expert in
that type of work and gave him the assignment of
bringing these buildings down with explosives, I
would bet that he could do it." [6]
Thus, Skilling’s team showed that a commercial jet
would not bring down a WTC Tower, just as the Empire
State Building did not collapse when hit by an airplane, and
he explained that a demolition expert using explosives could
demolish the buildings. We find we are in agreement.
3. Pancake Theory Not Supported
NIST: “NIST’s findings do not support the “pancake
theory” of collapse, which is premised on a progressive fail-
ure of the floor systems in the WTC towers… Thus, the
floors did not fail progressively to cause a pancaking phe-
nomenon” [3].
Agreed: the “pancake theory of collapse” is incorrect and
should be rejected. This theory of collapse was proposed by
the earlier FEMA report and promoted in the documentary
“Why the Towers Fell” produced by NOVA [7]. The “pan-
cake theory of collapse” is strongly promoted in a Popular
Mechanics article along with a number of other discredited
ideas [8, 9]. We, on the other hand, agree with NIST that the
“pancake theory” is not scientifically tenable and ought to be
set aside in serious discussions regarding the destruction of
the WTC Towers and WTC 7.
4. Massive Core Columns
NIST: “As stated above, the core columns were designed
to support approximately 50% of the gravity loads” [4]. “The
hat-truss tied the core to the perimeter walls of the towers,
and thus allowed the building to withstand the effects of the
aircraft impact and subsequent fires for a much longer
time—enabling large numbers of building occupants to
evacuate safely” [10].
“Pacific Car and Foundry of Seattle, Washington, fabri-
cated the closely spaced exterior wall column panels that
gave the buildings their instantly recognizable shape. Stanray
Pacific of Los Angeles, Cal, fabricated the enormous box
and wide-flange columns that made up the core… The core
of the building, which carried primarily gravity loads, was
made up of a mixture of massive box columns made from
three-story long plates, and heavy rolled wide-flange
shapes.” “The core columns were designed to carry the
building gravity loads and were loaded to approximately
50% of their capacity before the aircraft impact.... the exte-
rior columns were loaded to only approximately 20% of their
capacity before the aircraft impact” [11].
We totally agree that the WTC Towers included “mas-
sive” interconnected steel columns in the cores of the build-
ings, in addition to the columns in the outside walls. The
central core columns bore much of the gravity loads so the
Towers were clearly NOT hollow. Yet the false notion that
the Towers were “hollow tubes” with the floors supported
just by the perimeter columns seems to have gained wide
acceptance. For example, an emeritus structural engineering
professor asserted, “The structural design of the towers was
unique in that the supporting steel structure consisted of
closely spaced columns in the walls of all four sides. The
resulting structure was similar to a tube…” [12].
The fact is the Towers were constructed with a substan-
tial load-supporting core structure as well as perimeter col-
umns – and on this point we agree with NIST in dispelling
false popular notions.
5. Essentially in Free Fall
NIST: [Question:] “How could the WTC towers collapse
in only 11 seconds (WTC 1) and 9 seconds (WTC 2)—
speeds that approximate that of a ball dropped from similar
height in a vacuum (with no air resistance)?” [Answer:]
…As documented in Section 6.14.4 of NIST NCSTAR 1,
these collapse times show that: “… the structure below the
level of collapse initiation offered minimal resistance to the
falling building mass at and above the impact zone. The po-
tential energy released by the downward movement of the
large building mass far exceeded the capacity of the intact
structure below to absorb that energy through energy of de-
formation. Since the stories below the level of collapse ini-
tiation provided little resistance to the tremendous energy
released by the falling building mass, the building section
above came down essentially in free fall, as seen in videos”
[3].
We agree with some of this, that the building “came
down essentially in free fall, as seen in videos.” This is an
important starting point. (Because of obscuring dust clouds,
it is difficult to determine the exact fall times, but the state-
ment that the buildings “came down essentially in free fall”
seems correct when accelerations are viewed, for the WTC
Towers and also for WTC 7.) [13, 14] Further, we agree with
NIST that “the stories below the level of collapse initiation
provided little resistance” to the fall – but we ask – how
could that be? NIST mentions “energy of deformation”
which for the huge core columns in the Towers would be
considerable, and they need to be quantitative about it
(which they were not) in order to claim that the “intact struc-
ture” below would not significantly slow the motion.
Beyond that, NIST evidently neglects a fundamental law
of physics in glibly treating the remarkable “free fall” col-
lapse of each Tower, namely, the Law of Conservation of
Page 3
WTC Destruction: Points of Agreement
The Open Civil Engineering Journal, 2008, Volume 2 37
Momentum. This law of physics means that the hundreds of
thousands of tons of material in the way must slow the upper
part of the building because of its mass, independent of de-
formation which can only slow the fall even more. (Energy
and Momentum must both be conserved.)
Published papers have argued that this negligence by
NIST (leaving the near-free-fall speeds unexplained) is a
major flaw in their analysis [13, 14]. NIST ignores the possi-
bility of controlled demolitions, which achieve complete
building collapses in near free-fall times by moving the ma-
terial out of the way using explosives. So, there is an alterna-
tive explanation that fits the data without violating basic
laws of physics. We should be able to agree from observing
the near-free-fall destruction that this is characteristic of con-
trolled demolitions and, therefore, that controlled demolition
is one way to achieve complete collapse at near free-fall
speed. Then we are keen to look at NIST’s calculations of
how they explain near-free-fall collapse rates without explo-
sives.
We await an explanation from NIST which satisfies Con-
servation of Momentum and Energy for the rapid and com-
plete destruction of all three WTC skyscrapers on 9/11, or a
discussion of alternative hypotheses that are consistent with
momentum and energy conservation in these near-free-fall
events.
6. Fire Endurance Tests, No Failure
NIST: “NIST contracted with Underwriters Laboratories,
Inc. to conduct tests to obtain information on the fire endur-
ance of trusses like those in the WTC towers…. All four test
specimens sustained the maximum design load for approxi-
mately 2 hours without collapsing… The Investigation Team
was cautious about using these results directly in the formu-
lation of collapse hypotheses. In addition to the scaling is-
sues raised by the test results, the fires in the towers on Sep-
tember 11, and the resulting exposure of the floor systems,
were substantially different from the conditions in the test
furnaces. Nonetheless, the [empirical test] results established
that this type of assembly was capable of sustaining a large
gravity load, without collapsing, for a substantial period of
time relative to the duration of the fires in any given location
on September 11” [4].
We agree that NIST had actual fire tests completed and
that all four “trusses like those in the WTC towers” survived
the fire-endurance testing “without collapsing.” We also
agree that “the fires in the towers on September 11 … were
substantially different from the conditions in the test fur-
naces;” the test furnaces were hotter and burned longer.
NIST may wish to perform a series of different tests in an
endeavor to discover some other hypothesis for collapse ini-
tiation. As it stands, however, we have no physical evidence
supporting the concept of total collapse due to fire from real
fire-endurance tests. On the contrary, these real-life tests
indicate that the buildings should not have completely col-
lapsed. In addition, we have hundreds of cases of fires in tall
steel-frame buildings and complete collapse has never oc-
curred.
But experts said no building like it [WTC7], a
modern, steel-reinforced high-rise, had ever col-
lapsed because of an uncontrolled fire, and engi-
neers have been trying to figure out exactly what
happened and whether they should be worried
about other buildings like it around the country….
Although the fireproofing was intended to with-
stand ordinary fires for at least two hours, experts
said buildings the size of 7 World Trade Center
that are treated with such coatings have never col-
lapsed in a fire of any duration. Most of three
other buildings in the complex, 4, 5 and 6 World
Trade, stood despite suffering damage of all kinds,
including fire [15].
Fire engineering expert Norman Glover agrees:
Almost all large buildings will be the location for
a major fire in their useful life. No major high-rise
building has ever collapsed from fire… The WTC
[itself] was the location for such a fire in 1975;
however, the building survived with minor dam-
age and was repaired and returned to service [16].
Yet three such high-rise buildings (WTC 1, 2 and 7)
completely collapsed on a single day, 9/11/2001, and could
not be returned to service. There is much left to learn here.
7. Fires of Short Duration
NIST: “The initial jet fuel fires themselves lasted at most
a few minutes” [4]. “At any given location, the duration of
[air, not steel] temperatures near 1,000 °C was about 15 min
to 20 min. The rest of the time, the calculated temperatures
were near 500 °C or below” [4].
We agree. But then, given that the fires were brief and
patchy, how did both towers experience sudden-onset failure
of structural steel over a broad area in each tower and how
could the collapses of all three WTC high-rises have been so
symmetrical and complete? [13, 14, 17] We seek discussion
on these points.
8. WTC Fires Did Not Melt Steel
NIST: “In no instance did NIST report that steel in the
WTC towers melted due to the fires. The melting point of
steel is about 1,500 degrees Celsius (2,800 degrees Fahren-
heit). Normal building fires and hydrocarbon (e.g., jet fuel)
fires generate temperatures up to about 1,100 degrees Cel-
sius (2,000 degrees Fahrenheit). NIST reported maximum
upper layer air temperatures of about 1,000 degrees Celsius
(1,800 degrees Fahrenheit) in the WTC towers (for example,
see NCSTAR 1, figure 6-36)” [3].
Agreed. We also find agreement with Prof. Thomas Ea-
gar on this point:
The fire is the most misunderstood part of the
WTC collapse. Even today, the media report (and
many scientists believe) that the steel melted. It is
argued that the jet fuel burns very hot, especially
with so much fuel present. This is not true.... The
temperature of the fire at the WTC was not un-
usual, and it was most definitely not capable of
melting steel [18].
We are in remarkable agreement, then: the WTC fires
were not capable of melting steel. Of course, NIST then may
have trouble explaining the molten material flowing out of
the South Tower just before its collapse, as well as evidence
for temperatures much higher than NIST’s reported 1,100 °C
Page 4
38 The Open Civil Engineering Journal, 2008, Volume 2
Jones et al.
[13]. We offer to discuss explanations for the observed high
temperatures.
9. Destruction of WTC Steel Evidence
NIST: “NIST possesses 236 structural steel elements
from the World Trade Center (WTC) buildings. These pieces
represent a small fraction of the enormous amount of steel
examined at the various recovery yards where the debris was
sent as the WTC site was cleared. It is estimated that roughly
0.25 percent to 0.5 percent of the 200,000 tons of steel used
in the construction of the two towers was recovered.” “The
lack of WTC 7 steel precludes tests on actual material from
the structure…” [1].
Thus, only a tiny fraction of steel was analyzed from the
WTC Towers, and none of the WTC 7 steel was analyzed by
NIST. What happened to the rest of the steel from the crime
scene?
For more than three months, structural steel from
the World Trade Center has been and continues to
be cut up and sold for scrap. Crucial evidence that
could answer many questions about high-rise
building design practices and performance under
fire conditions is on the slow boat to China, per-
haps never to be seen again in America until you
buy your next car.
Such destruction of evidence shows the astound-
ing ignorance of government officials to the value
of a thorough, scientific investigation of the larg-
est fire-induced collapse in world history. I have
combed through our national standard for fire in-
vestigation, NFPA 921, but nowhere in it does one
find an exemption allowing the destruction of evi-
dence for buildings over 10 stories tall [19].
And although only a small fraction of the steel was saved
for testing, it is clear that an “enormous amount” of the WTC
steel was examined either for or by NIST, and the samples
selected were chosen for their identified importance to the
NIST investigation [20].
We agree that only a “small fraction of the enormous
amount of steel” from the Towers was spared and the rest
was rapidly recycled. The destruction of about 99% of the
steel, evidence from a crime scene, was suspicious and
probably illegal, hopefully we can agree to that.
10. Unusual Bright Flame and Glowing Liquid (WTC 2)
NIST: “An unusual flame is visible within this fire. In the
upper photograph {Fig 9-44} a very bright flame, as opposed
to the typical yellow or orange surrounding flames, which is
generating a plume of white smoke, stands out” [4].
“NIST reported (NCSTAR 1-5A) that just before 9:52
a.m., a bright spot appeared at the top of a window on the
80th floor of WTC 2, four windows removed from the east
edge on the north face, followed by the flow of a glowing
liquid. This flow lasted approximately four seconds before
subsiding. Many such liquid flows were observed from near
this location in the seven minutes leading up to the collapse
of this tower” [3].
We agree and congratulate NIST for including these ob-
servations of an “unusual flame... which is generating a
plume of white smoke” [4] “followed by the flow of a glow-
ing liquid” having “an orange glow” [3]. With regard to the
“very bright flame… which is generating a plume of white
smoke”, NIST effectively rules out burning aluminum, be-
cause “Aluminum is not expected to ignite at normal fire
temperatures…” [3].
Again, we agree.
The origins of this very bright flame and of the associ-
ated flow of an orange-glowing liquid remain open questions
in the NIST report. NIST opened a very appropriate line of
investigation by publishing these significant clues from the
data, [3,4] providing an important starting point for further
discussion which we seek.
11. High-Temperature Steel Attack, Sulfidation
FEMA (based on work by a Worchester Polytechnic In-
stitute investigative team): “Sample 1 (From WTC 7)… Evi-
dence of a severe high temperature corrosion attack on the
steel, including oxidation and sulfidation with subsequent
intergranular melting, was readily visible in the near-surface
microstructure…. Sample 2 (From WTC 1 or WTC 2)… The
thinning of the steel occurred by high temperature corrosion
due to a combination of oxidation and sulfidation. …The
severe corrosion and subsequent erosion of Samples 1 and 2
are a very unusual event. No clear explanation for the source
of the sulfur has been identified… A detailed study into the
mechanisms of this phenomenon is needed…” [2]
We agree that the physical evidence for “severe high
temperature corrosion attack” involving sulfur is compelling.
Here we have grounds for an interesting discussion: How
were “severe high temperatures” reached in the WTC build-
ings? What is the source of the sulfur that attacked the steel
in these buildings? The answers to these questions may help
us find the explanation for the “total collapse” of the Towers
and WTC 7 that we are all looking for.
The WPI researchers published their results [2,21] and
called for “a detailed study” of this “high-temperature” “oxi-
dation and sulfidation” phenomenon. Yet the results were
unfortunately ignored by NIST in their subsequent reports on
the Towers’ destruction [3,4]. Their failure to respond to this
documented anomaly is a striking phenomenon in itself. Per-
haps NIST will explain and correct this oversight by consid-
ering the high-temperature sulfidation data in their long
overdue report on the collapse of WTC 7. The existence of
severe high temperatures in the WTC destruction is by now
very well established [22]. It appears that NIST has inadver-
tently overlooked this evidence and we offer to investigate
the matter with them, in pursuit of understanding and secu-
rity.
12. Computer Modeling and Visualizations
NIST: “The more severe case (which became Case B for
WTC 1 and Case D for WTC 2) was used for the global
analysis of each tower. Complete sets of simulations were
then performed for Cases B and D. To the extent that the
simulations deviated from the photographic evidence or
eyewitness reports [e.g., complete collapse occurred], the
investigators adjusted the input, but only within the range of
physical reality. Thus, for instance…the pulling forces on the
perimeter columns by the sagging floors were adjusted... [4]
“The primary role of the floors in the collapse of the towers
Page 5
WTC Destruction: Points of Agreement
The Open Civil Engineering Journal, 2008, Volume 2 39
was to provide inward pull forces that induced inward bow-
ing of perimeter columns [4]. “The results were a simulation
of the structural deterioration of each tower from the time of
aircraft impact to the time at which the building became un-
stable, i.e., was poised for collapse… [4].
We agree that NIST resorted to complex computer simu-
lations and no doubt “adjusted the input” to account for the
Towers’ destruction, after the fire-endurance physical tests
did not support their preordained collapse theory.
But the end result of such tweaked computer models,
which were provided without visualizations and without suf-
ficient detail for others to validate them, is hardly compel-
ling. An article in the journal New Civil Engineer states:
World Trade Center disaster investigators [at
NIST] are refusing to show computer visualisa-
tions of the collapse of the Twin Towers despite
calls from leading structural and fire engineers,
NCE has learned. Visualisations of collapse
mechanisms are routinely used to validate the type
of finite element analysis model used by the
[NIST] investigators. …A leading US structural
engineer said NIST had obviously devoted enor-
mous resources to the development of the impact
and fire models. “By comparison the global struc-
tural model is not as sophisticated,” he said. “The
software used [by NIST] has been pushed to new
limits, and there have been a lot of simplifications,
extrapolations and judgment calls” [23].
Further detailed comments on the NIST computer simu-
lations are provided by Eric Douglas [24].
We would like to discuss the computer modeling and
extrapolations made by NIST and the need for visualizations
using numerical and graphical tools to scrutinize and validate
the finite-element analysis.
13. Total Collapse Explanation Lacking
NIST: “This letter is in response to your April 12, 2007
request for correction… we are unable to provide a full ex-
planation of the total collapse” [25].
This admission by NIST after publishing some 10,000
pages on the collapse of the Towers shows admirable candor,
yet may come as a bit of a shock to interested parties includ-
ing Congress, which commissioned NIST to find a full ex-
planation.
We agree that NIST so far has not provided a full expla-
nation for the total collapse. Indeed they take care to explain
that their report stops short of the collapse, only taking the
investigation up to the point where each Tower “was poised
for collapse” [4]. We offer to help find that elusive “full ex-
planation of the total collapse” of the WTC Towers which
killed so many innocent people, in the hope that it does not
happen again. We have a few ideas and can back these up
with experimental data [13, 22]. Our interest is in physical
evidence and analysis leading to a full understanding of the
destruction of the WTC.
14. Search for Explosive or Thermite Residues
From a NIST FAQ: [Question: ] “Did the NIST investi-
gation look for evidence of the WTC towers being brought
down by controlled demolition? Was the steel tested for ex-
plosives or thermite residues? The combination of thermite
and sulfur (called thermate) "slices through steel like a hot
knife through butter." [Answer: ] NIST did not test for the
residue of these compounds in the steel” [3].
We agree; there is no evidence that NIST tested for resi-
dues of thermite or explosives. This is another remarkable
admission. Probing for residues from pyrotechnic materials
including thermite in particular, is specified in fire and ex-
plosion investigations by the NFPA 921 code:
Unusual residues might remain from the initial
fuel. Those residues could arise from thermite,
magnesium, or other pyrotechnic materials [26].
Traces of thermite in residues (solidified slag, dust, etc.)
would tell us a great deal about the crime and the cause of
thousands of injuries and deaths. This is standard procedure
for fire and explosion investigations. Perhaps NIST will ex-
plain why they have not looked for these residues? The code
specifies that fire-scene investigators must be prepared to
justify an exclusion [26].
NIST has been asked about this important issue recently,
by investigative reporter Jennifer Abel:
Abel: "..what about that letter where NIST said it
didn't look for evidence of explosives?” Neuman
[spokesperson at NIST, listed on the WTC report]:
"Right, because there was no evidence of that."
Abel: But how can you know there's no evidence if
you don't look for it first? Neuman: "If you're
looking for something that isn't there, you're wast-
ing your time... and the taxpayers’ money.” [27].
The evident evasiveness of this answer might be humor-
ous if not for the fact that NIST’s approach here affects the
lives of so many innocent people. We do not think that look-
ing for thermite or other residues specified in the NFPA 921
code is “wasting your time.” We may be able to help out
here as well, for we have looked for such residues in the
WTC remains using state-of-the-art analytical methods, es-
pecially in the voluminous toxic dust that was produced as
the buildings fell and killed thousands of people, and the
evidence for thermite use is mounting. [13, 22]
CONCLUSIONS
We have enumerated fourteen areas where we are in
agreement with FEMA and NIST in their investigations of
the tragic and shocking destruction of the World Trade Cen-
ter. We agree that the Towers fell at near free-fall speed and
that is an important starting point. We agree that several
popular myths have been shown to be wrong, such as the
idea that steel in the buildings melted due to the fires, or that
the Towers were hollow tubes, or that floors “pancaked” to
account for total Tower collapses. We agree that the collapse
of the 47-story WTC 7 (which was not hit by a jet) is hard to
explain from the point of view of a fire-induced mechanism
and that NIST has refused (so far) to look for residues of
explosives [3, 22, 27]. Our investigative team would like to
build from this foundation and correspond with the NIST
investigation team, especially since they have candidly con-
ceded (in a reply to some of us in September 2007):
“…we are unable to provide a full explanation of the total
collapse” [25].
Page 6
40 The Open Civil Engineering Journal, 2008, Volume 2
Jones et al.
We are offering to discuss these matters in a civil manner
as a matter of scientific and engineering courtesy and civic
duty. The lives of thousands of people may very well depend
on it.
ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS
Many thanks for useful discussions with Jim Hoffman,
Dr. Gregory Jenkins, Dr. Jeffrey Farrer, Prof. Kenneth Kut-
tler, Prof. David R. Griffin, Gregg Roberts, Brad Larsen,
Gordon Ross, Prof. David Griscom, Prof. Graeme Mac-
Queen, and researchers at AE911Truth.org and STJ911.org.
REFERENCES
[1]
S. W. Banovic, “Federal building and fire safety investigation of
the World Trade Center disaster: Steel inventory and identification,
NIST NCSTAR1-3B”. Gaithersburg, MD: National Institute of
Standards and Technology, September 2005.
[2]
Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), World Trade
Center building performance study: Preliminary observations, and
recommendations, Report FEMA 403. Washington, D.C.: Federal
Emergency Management Agency, May 2002.
[3]
S. Sunder, W. Grosshandler, H. S. Lew, et al. “National Institute of
Standards and Technology (NIST) federal building and fire safety
investigation of the World Trade Center disaster, answers to fre-
quently asked questions”, Gaithersburg, MD: National Institute of
Standards and Technology, August 30, 2006. [Online]. Available:
NIST, http://wtc.nist.gov. [Accessed March 17, 2008].
[4]
S. Sunder, W. Grosshandler, H. S. Lew, et al. “Final report on the
collapse of the World Trade Center towers, NIST NCSTAR .
Gaithersburg”, MD: National Institute of Standards and Technol-
ogy, September 2005.
[5]
Z. P. Bazant and Y. Zhou, “Why did the World Trade Center col-
lapse? Simple analysis”, J. Eng. Mech., vol. 128, pp. 2-6, January
2002.
[6]
E. Nalder, “Twin towers engineered to withstand jet collision”,
Seattle Times, February 27, 1993. [Online]. Available: http:// ar-
chives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-
bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=1687698&date=19930227
[Accessed April 5, 2008].
[7]
Public Broadcasting System, “Why the Towers fell”, Public Broad-
casting System, 2002. [Online]. Available: http://www.pbs.org/
wgbh/nova/transcripts/2907_wtc.html [Accessed March 17, 2008].
[8]
J. B. Meigs, D. Dunbar, B. Reagan, et al. “Debunking the 9/11
myths, special report”, Popular Mechanics, vol. 182, pp. 70-81,
March 2005.
[9]
D. R. Griffin, Debunking 9/11 debunking: “An answer to Popular
Mechanics and other defenders of the official conspiracy theory”,
Northampton, MA: Interlink Books, 2007.
[10]
S. Sundar, Opening remarks of Dr. S. Shyam Sunder (NIST), May
2006. [Online]. Available: NIST, http://wtc.nist.gov/media/
Sunder_Progressive%20Collapse_Remarks_050106.pdf [Accessed
March 27, 2008].
[11]
S. W. Banovic, T. Foecke, W.E. Luecke, et al. “The role of metal-
lurgy in the NIST investigation of the World Trade Center towers
collapse”,JOM, vol. 59, no. 11, pp. 22-29, November 2007.
[12]
D. A. Firmage. (April 10, 2006). “Refuting 9/11 conspiracy the-
ory”, The College Times, p. A6.
[13]
S. E. Jones, “Why indeed did the WTC buildings completely col-
lapse?”, Journal of 9/11 Studies, vol. 3, pp. 1-47, September 2006.
[Online]. Available: www.journalof911studies.com [Accessed
March 17, 2008].
[14]
F. Legge and T. Szamboti, “9/11 and the twin towers: Sudden
collapse initiation was impossible”, Journal of 9/11 Studies, vol.
18, pp. 1-3, December 2007. [Online]. Available: www. journalof
911studies.com [Accessed March 17, 2008].
[15]
J. Glanz, “A nation challenged; the site: Engineers have a culprit in
the strange collapse of 7 World Trade Center: Diesel fuel”, New
York Times, November 29, 2001, p. B9.
[16]
N. J. Glover, “Collapse lessons”, Fire Engineering, October 2002,
p. 97.
[17]
D. L. Griscom, “Hand-waving the physics of 9/11”, Journal of 9/11
Studies, Letters, February 8, 2007. [Online]. Available:
www.journalof911studies.com [Accessed March 17, 2008].
[18]
T. W. Eagar and C. Musso, “Why did the World Trade Center
collapse? Science, engineering, and speculation”, JOM, vol. 53, no.
12, pp. 8-11, December 2001.
[19]
W. Manning, “Selling out the investigation”, Fire Engineering,
January 2002, p. 4.
[20]
J. Gourley, R. McIlvaine, W. Doyle, S. E. Jones, K. Ryan and R.
Gage, “Appeal filed with NIST pursuant to earlier request for cor-
rection”, Journal of 9/11 Studies, 17 pp. 1-16. [Online]. Available:
www.journalof911studies.com [Accessed March 17, 2008].
[21]
J. R. Barnett, R. R. Biederman and R. D. Sisson, Jr., “An initial
microstructural analysis of A36 steel from WTC building 7”, JOM,
vol. 53, no. 12, p. 18, December 2001.
[22]
S. E. Jones, J. Farrer, G. S. Jenkins, et al. “Extremely high tem-
peratures during the World Trade Center destruction”, Journal of
9/11 Studies, vol. 19, pp.1-11, January 2008. [Online]. Available:
www.journalof911studies.com [Accessed March 17, 2008].
[23]
D. Parker, “WTC investigators resist call for collapse visualisa-
tion”, New Civil Engineer, November 1, 2005. [Online]. Available:
http://www.nce.co.uk/news/2005/11/wtc_investigators_resist_call_
for_collapse_visualisation.html [Accessed April 8, 2008].
[24]
E. Douglas, “The NIST WTC investigation-- how real was the
simulation? A review of NIST NCSTAR 1”, Journal of 9/11 Stud-
ies, vol. 6, pp. 1-28, December 2006. [Online]. Available:
www.journalof911studies.com [Accessed March 17, 2008].
[25]
C. S. Fletcher (NIST), “Response to request for correction”, Jour-
nal of 9/11 Studies, vol. 17, pp. 17-23, November 2007. [Online].
Available: www.journalof911studies.com [Accessed March 17,
2008].
[26]
National Fire Protection Association, “Guide for fire and explosion
investigations”, NFPA 921. [Online]. Available: http://www.nfpa.
org/aboutthecodes/AboutTheCodes.asp?DocNum=921
[Accessed
March 17, 2008].
[27]
J. Abel, “Theories of 9/11”, Hartford Advocate, Hartford, Con-
necticut, January 29, 2008. [Online]. Available: http://www.
hartfordadvocate.com/article.cfm?aid=5546 with reply: http://
www.hartfordadvocate.com/article.cfm?aid=5674
[Accessed
March 17, 2008].

www.libertariansforjustice.org/stephenjones/14pointsCEJ.pdf


Now ... go ahead, try and find holes in that.

How about we just review a 911 video showing tons of dust?
www.metacafe.com/watch/803350/911_extreme_closeup_of_demolition_and_dust/

More 911 dust video
www.metacafe.com/watch/803354/911_wtc_7_demolition_window/

[size:11pt]Hats off to the NIST, MIT and many others for refusing to declare that they found an exact cause for the collapses. I do not buy into the conspiracy theory simply because there was no need for the US government to carry out such a devastating blow to the economy and well being of Americans. A rational person would realize that an elaborate operation involving more than a hand full of people could not be kept secret for very long.
Frankly, I do not believe anyone could do what the nuts say they did without being turned in; there are too many people who would never allow something like this to succeed.

I have read enough from the conspiracy crowd to determine that they can not prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt about the events of that day either. The damning evidence against almost all these theorists is the simple fact that they could not decide who to blame. Was it Bush? Cheney? The filthy Jew Silverstein? Israeli Mossad? Nineteen men affiliated with AlQaeda could never hijack four commercial jet aircraft and fly three of them into buildings, that would be impossible!

Once again, one must take into account how lame these SWAGs are when they are confronted with reality. You do not need this much destruction to go to war; especially where Iraq is concerned. That was a cakewalk.

Economic Costs to the United States Stemming From the 9/11 Attacks
Strategic Insights, Volume I, Issue 6 (August 2002)
by Robert Looney

Strategic Insights is a monthly electronic journal produced by the Center for Contemporary Conflict at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California. The views expressed here are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily represent the views of NPS, the Department of Defense, or the U.S. Government.

Click here for a PDF version of this article.


Introduction
Like all major disasters, natural or manmade, the terrorist attacks of September 11 resulted in a tragic loss of life and destruction of property, as well as short-term disruption of economic activity. In addition, because of the size and premeditated nature of the attack, there are likely to be more lasting effects in some industries and segments of the U.S. economy.
Conceptually, the economic costs to the United States stemming from the 9/11 terrorist attacks can be broken down into several categories, largely depending on their nature (direct and indirect) and on the time period examined (immediate, short-term, medium-term and long-term). Those costs that are short run and direct are clearly the easiest to identify and measure. Estimates covering longer periods of time and focused mainly on indirect costs require numerous assumptions concerning counterfactuals and hence are on less firm ground. Another area of controversy involves the anthrax scare following the attacks. The estimates below treat this as a separate event, although in some of the indirect cost estimates this factor may have had an influence.

Immediate and Short Term Direct Impacts
The September 11 attacks inflicted casualties and material damages on a far greater scale than any other terrorist aggression in recent history. Lower Manhattan lost approximately 30 percent of its office space and a number of businesses ceased to exist. Close to 200,000 jobs were destroyed or relocated out of New York City, at least temporarily. The destruction of physical assets was estimated in the national accounts to amount to $14 billion for private businesses, $1.5 billion for state and local government enterprises and $0.7 billion for federal enterprises. Rescue, cleanup and related costs have been estimated to amount to at least $11 billion for a total direct cost of $27.2 billion.

Immediate and Short Term Indirect Impacts
Immediately after the attacks, leading forecast services sharply revised downward their projections of economic activity. The consensus forecast for U.S. real GDP growth was instantly downgraded by 0.5 percentage points for 2001 and 1.2 percentage points for 2002. The implied projected cumulative loss in national income through the end of 2003 amounted to 5 percentage points of annual GDP, or half a trillion dollars.

With production disrupted in some areas (airlines) and consumers increasingly cautious, real GDP shrank in the third quarter of 2001. But in the fourth quarter, demand held up better than initially feared, and GDP increased. However, private sector fixed investment registered a steep decline, and inventories were slashed. Offsetting these forces, however, were household consumption, helped by falling energy prices, and government spending. Defense spending in particular grew by about 9.25% in real terms in the fourth quarter, at a seasonally adjusted annual rate.

Some sectors or firms actually witnessed an increase in demand, notably in the area of security and information technology. Still, while overall demand proved fairly resilient, a number of sectors were hit hard, with declining output and profits continuing into the mid-term.

Overall however the short-term adverse economic impact of the attacks was far less than feared initially, thanks in large part to good economic crisis management. The Federal Reserve, the Administration and Congress acted quickly to restore confidence, inject liquidity and provide resources to deal with the consequences of the attacks. The Federal Reserve by lowering the price of credit and temporarily providing vast amounts of liquidity helped safeguard the integrity of the financial system and saved many firms from bankruptcy.

Medium Term Impacts
Looking beyond the short term, the fact that the attack was premeditated and therefore could be repeated has had a significant impact on five main areas: (1) insurance; (2) airlines; (3) tourism and other industries associated with travel; (4) shipping; and (5) increased defense/security expenditures. In turn, developments in these areas have had a broader effect on wide areas of economic activity.

Insurance. The losses from the terrorist attacks for the insurance industry (including reinsurance) are estimated at between $30 and $58 billion with the main uncertainty concerning liability insurance. By comparison the losses associated with Hurricane Andrew's 1992 damage in Florida came to around $21 billion. Even if the final cost is close to the lower estimate, insured losses in 2001 are likely to have been the highest ever.
Following the attacks, most primary insurers have increased their premiums and curtailed or dropped altogether coverage for terrorism-related risk. The increases in insurance premiums have adversely affected several key industries. The strongest impact has been on aviation, but other sectors, including transportation, construction, and tourism and energy generation have also been affected. Overall it is estimated that commercial property and liability insurance rates have been raised by 30 percent on average.
Airlines. The United States' airline industry was already in a weak financial position before the attacks with rising debt ratios and falling returns on investment. Even with cutbacks in service of the order of 20 percent and significant government support, airline passenger traffic has apparently remained below normal, 100,000 layoffs have been announced and employment in October and November fell by 81,000 (almost 8 percent). Equity valuations compared to the overall market illustrate these difficulties. The U.S. airline sector has lost around 20 percent of its relative value since September 10.
Tourism and Other Service Industries. Other industries have also been badly affected, such as hotels, tourism, automobile rentals, travel agents, and civilian aircraft manufactures. For example, hotels have reported higher vacancy rates and employment in the sector as a whole fell by 58,000 (about 3 percent) in October and November. Relative equity values for hotels and leisure facilities are off by around 15 percent.
Shipping. Shipping is an area where it is particularly hard to assess the impact of the terrorist attacks. The main problem is one of defining a credible counterfactual—i.e., what would the state of affairs been in the absence of 9/11? For example, in spite of new security requirements, six months following the attacks most available indices showed little evidence of an increase in shipping costs. Some rates had even declined. Maritime shipping rates increased by 5 to 10 percent on average in the two weeks following the attack, but that rise was soon reversed. Airfreight rates, on the other hand were bout 10 percent higher in late 2001 than before the attacks. Given the sharp deceleration of aggregate demand beginning in 2000 and the drop in fuel costs following the attacks, a steeper decline in freight costs should have occurred. The relative stability of freight rates, despite lower fuel costs and under-utilized shipping capacity would tend to suggest that underlying transportation costs may have increased as a result of the 9/11 attacks.
Increases in security and military spending. The President has requested a significant increase in security-related programs in the context of the budget for FY2003. Additional spending of $48 billion was proposed for national defense (an increase of 14 percent from the previous year). In addition the President asked Congress for an appropriation of $38 billion for homeland security, compared to $20 billion spent in 2001. This seeks to improve the preparedness of first responders (fireman, police, and rescue workers), enhance defenses against biological attacks, secure borders and improve information sharing and includes $8 billion for domestic defense spending.
While it is too early to say with any precision, the medium term costs to the economy may be considerable. The shrinkage of terrorism related insurance coverage may have a detrimental impact on investment as lenders become wary of greater potential risks, although there is no strong evidence yet of such a pattern. While providing a much needed short-run stimulus to the economy, the increased levels of fiscal deficits stemming from the acceleration in defense expenditures may, in the medium-to-longer term, retard growth by increasing interest rates and thus reducing private capital formation and productivity.

From your source it is obvious that Steven Jones` work has never been peer reviewed either. You cannot claim your work is peer reviewed unless it is published, and Jones` work has never been published in any peer review jouranal/s to date. So who`s going to believe you or Jones, considering ya both have been discovered distributing false information?

Jones maintains that the paper was peer-reviewed prior to publication within a book "9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out" by D.R. Griffin[24], however it has never been published in an independent peer-reviewed journal. The paper was also posted on the Internet site of the "Journal of 9/11 Studies", which was co-founded by Jones for the purpose of "covering the whole of research related to 9/11/2001", was co-edited by him, and which has recently slowed publication, having posted a notice that potential contributors were encouraged to submit their prospective work to other, more mainstream, publications.[25]The paper also appears in Global Outlook,[26] a magazine "seeking to reveal the truth About 9/11"[27] and in a volume of essays edited by David Ray Griffin and Peter Dale Scott.[28]

On September 7, 2006, Jones removed his paper from BYU's website at the request of administrators and was placed on paid leave. [29]

The university cited its concern about the "increasingly speculative and accusatory nature" of Jones' work and the concern that perhaps it had "not been published in appropriate scientific venues" as reasons for putting him under review. The review was to have been conducted at three levels: BYU administration, the College of Physical and Mathematical Sciences, and the Physics Department.[30]

Jones' placement on paid leave drew criticism from the American Association of University Professors and the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education. Both organizations are long time critics of BYU's record on academic freedom.[31] Jones "welcomed the review" because he hoped it would "encourage people to read his paper for themselves," however the review was abandoned (contrary to Jones' request) when Jones elected to retire, effective January 1, 2007.[32]

Jones has been interviewed by mainstream news sources and has made a number of public appearances. While Jones has urged caution in drawing conclusions,[33] his public comments have suggested a considerable degree of certainty about both the controlled demolition of the World Trade Center and the culpability of rogue agents working within the U.S. government.[34] In one interview, he asserted that the attacks were "an 'inside job', puppeteered by the neoconservatives in the White House to justify the occupation of oil-rich Arab countries, inflate military spending, and expand Israel."[35] His name is often mentioned in reporting about 9/11 conspiracy theories.[36]

In April 2008, Jones, along with four other authors, published a letter in The Bentham Open Civil Engineering Journal, titled, 'Fourteen Points of Agreement with Official Government Reports on the World Trade Center Destruction'[37]. In August 2008, Jones, along with Kevin Ryan and James Gourley, published a peer-reviewed article in The Environmentalist, titled, 'Environmental anomalies at the World Trade Center: Evidence for energetic materials'.[38] And in April 2009, Jones, along with Niels H. Harrit and 7 other authors published a paper in The Open Chemical Physics Journal, titled, 'Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe'.[39]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones

Again from your source, we see that BYU came to the proper conclusion about Jones` work. He claims his work is peer reviewed but nobody has ever found any such information published. BYU had no choice but to sack Jones for lying without bringing this specific accusation to the forefront. If you overlooked this, shame on you for being such a sloppy investigator.

Jones' paper has been the center of controversy both for its content and its claims to scientific rigor.[19] Jones' early critics included members of BYU's engineering faculty;[20] shortly after he made his views public, the BYU College of Physical and Mathematical Sciences and the faculty of structural engineering issued statements in which they distanced themselves from Jones' work. They noted that Jones' "hypotheses and interpretations of evidence were being questioned by scholars and practitioners," and expressed doubts about whether they had been "submitted to relevant scientific venues that would ensure rigorous technical peer review."[21]

Some of Jones' colleagues have defended his work on 9/11 to varying degrees,[22] and Project Censored lists his 9/11 research among the top mainstream media censored stories of 2007.[23]

Jones maintains that the paper was peer-reviewed prior to publication within a book "9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out" by D.R. Griffin[24], however it has never been published in an independent peer-reviewed journal. The paper was also posted on the Internet site of the "Journal of 9/11 Studies", which was co-founded by Jones for the purpose of "covering the whole of research related to 9/11/2001", was co-edited by him, and which has recently slowed publication, having posted a notice that potential contributors were encouraged to submit their prospective work to other, more mainstream, publications.[25]The paper also appears in Global Outlook,[26] a magazine "seeking to reveal the truth About 9/11"[27] and in a volume of essays edited by David Ray Griffin and Peter Dale Scott.[28]

On September 7, 2006, Jones removed his paper from BYU's website at the request of administrators and was placed on paid leave. [29]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones

"Again from your source, we see that BYU came to the proper conclusion about Jones` work. He claims his work is peer reviewed but nobody has ever found any such information published."

But you yourself have posted this paragraph - in fact it's right about the above paragraph in your post!:






"In April 2008, Jones, along with four other authors, published a letter in The Bentham Open Civil Engineering Journal, titled, 'Fourteen Points of Agreement with Official Government Reports on the World Trade Center Destruction'[37]. In August 2008, Jones, along with Kevin Ryan and James Gourley, published a peer-reviewed article in The Environmentalist, titled, 'Environmental anomalies at the World Trade Center: Evidence for energetic materials'.[38] And in April 2009, Jones, along with Niels H. Harrit and 7 other authors published a paper in The Open Chemical Physics Journal, titled, 'Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe'.[39]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones

Those all count as peer-reviewed journals.

Three for the truthers vs. zip for the "official versionists".