Who's Online
3 registered (ineffable420, 2 invisible), 86 Guests and 41 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Advertisement
Shout Box

Newest Members
liburano, sabannation15, o0CanIbuS0o, bigbore, jud
38665 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Doobie_Brother 118
weedmen 84
Chris628 82
kenny_canuck 78
rasta 75
Forum Stats
38665 Members
55 Forums
183232 Topics
1649097 Posts

Max Online: 1054 @ 07/29/08 07:31 AM
May
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Advertisement
Page 17 of 23 < 1 2 ... 15 16 17 18 19 ... 22 23 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#1509703 - 03/08/09 01:59 AM Re: Anti-communist brainwashing [Re: davidmalmolevine]
benjamin Offline
Ganja God
**

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 5748
Loc: Grande Ronde Valley, NE Oregon...
Noam Chomsky meets World Socialist Movement Ireland.

The World Socialist Movement (or WSM) consists of people who have organised themselves democratically with one objective: to bring about a complete change in world society. We are made up of companion parties and groups in several countries.

The WSM is a global socialist movement that believes capitalism cannot meet the needs of the majority of us, the workers (or proletariat) of the world, no matter how progressive it might become in the future.

To meet these needs we contend that capitalism must be replaced by socialism. http://www.worldsocialism.org/index.php

Chomsky embraces capitalism while he condemns the USA. The man is a complete contradiction in the sense that he endorses Anarchy, Socialism, and communist regimes. There`s a big lie which Socialism presents. Their claim is that Socialism can meet the needs of the people; let me assure anyone who reads this, there has never been any government capable of meeting the needs of everyone, there never will be.

"The WSM is a global socialist movement that believes capitalism cannot meet the needs of the majority of us, the workers (or proletariat) of the world, no matter how progressive it might become in the future." The singular goal of Socialism is to divide people and provoke them into class struggle warfare. It`s a bait and switch tactic which states that the state can take care of you better than you can take care of yourself. There`s the lie which both dml and Noam Chomsky promote. We, the proletariat? Fuuuck you and the Marxist Trojan Horse you rode in on! As if workers are gleefully willing to work for what the state mandates they will receive for their wages? That did not succeed in Russia, China or anywhere else where Socialism devolved into harsh and violent communism.


What is Socialism?
Central to the meaning of socialism is common ownership. This means the resources of the world being owned in common by the entire global population.

But does it really make sense for everybody to own everything in common? Of course, some goods tend to be for personal consumption, rather than to share—clothes, for example. People 'owning' certain personal possessions does not contradict the principle of a society based upon common ownership.

In practice, common ownership will mean everybody having the right to participate in decisions on how global resources will be used. It means nobody being able to take personal control of resources, beyond their own personal possessions.

Democratic control is therefore also essential to the meaning of socialism. Socialism will be a society in which everybody will have the right to participate in the social decisions that affect them. These decisions could be on a wide range of issues—one of the most important kinds of decision, for example, would be how to organise the production of goods and services.

Production under socialism would be directly and solely for use. With the natural and technical resources of the world held in common and controlled democratically, the sole object of production would be to meet human needs. This would entail an end to buying, selling and money. Instead, we would take freely what we had communally produced. The old slogan of "from each according to ability, to each according to needs" would apply.

So how would we decide what human needs are? This question takes us back to the concept of democracy, for the choices of society will reflect their needs. These needs will, of course, vary among different cultures and with individual preferences—but the democratic system could easily be designed to provide for this variety.

We cannot, of course, predict the exact form that would be taken by this future global democracy. The democratic system will itself be the outcome of future democratic decisions. We can however say that it is likely that decisions will need to be taken at a number of different levels—from local to global. This would help to streamline the democratic participation of every individual towards the issues that concern them.

In socialism, everybody would have free access to the goods and services designed to directly meet their needs and there need be no system of payment for the work that each individual contributes to producing them. All work would be on a voluntary basis. Producing for needs means that people would engage in work that has a direct usefulness. The satisfaction that this would provide, along with the increased opportunity to shape working patterns and conditions, would bring about new attitudes to work. http://www.worldsocialism.org/articles/what_is_socialism.php

There is absolutely nothing Democratic in Socialist practice.
Please note how vaguely described Democratically is in this phony description of Socialism is. The reason Socialism cloaks itself in Democratic sheep`s wool is because od democracy`s appeal. Socialists wouldn`t dare try to compete head on with democracy by openly discussing its intolerance of non conformity.
One party, one world, one centralized government, not my cup of tea. Now bugger off Noam!


It only takes one megalomaniac to corrupt Socialism.


The global flops http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Socialist_states_by_duration.png
_________________________
Little Miss Muffet sat on her tuffet, eating her curds and whey.
Along came a spider which sat down beside her and said,"Load a bowl, BBB bitch?!"


Top
#1509742 - 03/08/09 08:05 AM Re: Anti-communist brainwashing [Re: benjamin]
davidmalmolevine Offline
Ganja God
***

Registered: 09/17/99
Posts: 21457
Loc: BC
"Chomsky embraces capitalism while he condemns the USA."

Where do you see Chomsky "embracing" capitalism?




"The singular goal of Socialism is to divide people and provoke them into class struggle warfare."

Says you.

The true goals of Socialism are 1) to wake up and alert the exploited to the fact that the people are already divided and there is already a class war going on and 2) to fight for the removal of exploitation:

"Since its origins, socialism has meant the liberation of working people from exploitation."

http://www.chomsky.info/articles/1986----.htm







"It`s a bait and switch tactic which states that the state can take care of you better than you can take care of yourself."

That's authoritarian socialism (communism) you're talking about. A few posts back you mentioned Chomsky was into COUNCIL communism - direct worker control - that's LIBERTARIAN socialism that Chomsky endorses, which is all about the workers taking care of themselves.





"As if workers are gleefully willing to work for what the state mandates they will receive for their wages? That did not succeed in Russia, China or anywhere else where Socialism devolved into harsh and violent communism. "

In the Spanish Revolution the anarchists - not the communists - were in control. This is the experiment that libertarian socialists should be judged by:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Revolution




"There is absolutely nothing Democratic in Socialist practice."

"The Spanish Revolution of 1936 began during the outbreak of the Spanish Civil War. Much of Spain's economy was put under worker control; in anarchist strongholds like Catalonia, the figure was as high as 75%, but lower in areas with heavy Stalinist influence. Factories were run through worker committees, agrarian areas became collectivised and run as libertarian communes. It has been estimated by Sam Dolgoff, author of The Anarchist Collectives: Workers' Self-Management in the Spanish Revolution, that over 10 million people participated directly or at least indirectly in the Spanish Revolution. Even places like hotels, barber shops, and restaurants were collectivized and managed by their workers."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Revolution
_________________________
"making the earth a common treasury for all, both rich and poor." Gerrard Winstanley; April 20, 1649

Top
#1509744 - 03/08/09 08:19 AM Re: dml [Re: Rider420]
19.5 Offline
Old hand
**

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 840
 Quote:
ROLMFOA WOW i love how insecure Republicans are


Cute...Keep "rolling on the floor laughing your ass off" kid...makes no difference to me...

where did i say i was republican?...where did i say i was even American?....show me.

where did you get sidetracked? one minute we are talking about david backing up his accusations and then you pop in with your mind reading show and Bush Rant...perhaps another hit of trainwreck will help you...or therapy.

 Quote:
ya Amerikka under Bush sure was great eh ROLMFAO


are you high?...scratch that.
You are like a person with turrets..every once in a while you just blurt out something stupid and off topic...what is it with you canadians?...can you people even speak without bringing up Bush and then somehow connecting the person you are speaking with to Bush?. You have Bush derangement syndrome...and too much time on your hands.


 Quote:
BTW how many people do you think died because America had to defend itself against a nation that was never a threat FYI where were the WMD


i have no idea slick...im not even in government. all i want to know is where david gets his numbers. and i also dont know where the WMD is either tiger...perhaps you can direct your anti american, anti bush rant to somebody who actually has a say in these matters...and maybe get out of your time warp as well..Bush is gone...move on with your life.

Top
#1509746 - 03/08/09 08:28 AM Re: dml [Re: davidmalmolevine]
19.5 Offline
Old hand
**

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 840
David your credibility is zero and your sources are dubious...

How did David and others come to the conclusion that a million women were killed by AmeriKKKans?...its simple...they INTERVIEWED 2400 adults...

 Quote:
Results based on face-to-face interviews amongst a nationally representative sample of 2,414 adults


you find yourself to be a champion debater...i find you to be a silly forum rat...






Edited by 19.5 (03/08/09 08:29 AM)
Edit Reason: typo

Top
#1509798 - 03/08/09 10:56 AM Re: dml [Re: 19.5]
davidmalmolevine Offline
Ganja God
***

Registered: 09/17/99
Posts: 21457
Loc: BC
"How did David and others come to the conclusion that a million women were killed by AmeriKKKans?...its simple...they INTERVIEWED 2400 adults..."

The problem with just counting the bodies that show up at the morgue and/or the bodies that get mentioned on the media is that they tend to miss the ones that were totally blown to tiny bits - which is a large percentage considering the US military and their love of air strikes.
_________________________
"making the earth a common treasury for all, both rich and poor." Gerrard Winstanley; April 20, 1649

Top
#1509894 - 03/08/09 03:11 PM Re: Anti-communist brainwashing [Re: davidmalmolevine]
benjamin Offline
Ganja God
**

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 5748
Loc: Grande Ronde Valley, NE Oregon...


One of the most persistent themes in Noam Chomsky’s work has been class warfare. He has frequently lashed out against the “massive use of tax havens to shift the burden to the general population and away from the rich” and criticized the concentration of wealth in “trusts” by the wealthiest 1 percent. The American tax code is rigged with “complicated devices for ensuring that the poor—like 80 percent of the population—pay off the rich.”

But trusts can’t be all bad. After all, Chomsky, with a net worth north of $2,000,000, decided to create one for himself. A few years back he went to Boston’s venerable white-shoe law firm, Palmer and Dodge, and, with the help of a tax attorney specializing in “income-tax planning,” set up an irrevocable trust to protect his assets from Uncle Sam. He named his tax attorney (every socialist radical needs one!) and a daughter as trustees. To the Diane Chomsky Irrevocable Trust (named for another daughter) he has assigned the copyright of several of his books, including multiple international editions.

Chomsky favors the estate tax and massive income redistribution—just not the redistribution of his income. No reason to let radical politics get in the way of sound estate planning.

Chomsky favors the estate tax and massive income redistribution—just not the redistribution of his income. No reason to let radical politics get in the way of sound estate planning.

When I challenged Chomsky about his trust, he suddenly started to sound very bourgeois: “I don’t apologize for putting aside money for my children and grandchildren,” he wrote in one e-mail. Chomsky offered no explanation for why he condemns others who are equally proud of their provision for their children and who try to protect their assets from Uncle Sam. Although he did say that the tax shelter is okay because he and his family are “trying to help suffering people.”

Indeed, Chomsky is rich precisely because he has been such an enormously successful capitalist. Despite the anti-profit rhetoric, like any other corporate capitalist he has turned himself into a brand name. As John Lloyd puts it, writing critically in the lefty New Statesman, Chomsky is among those “open to being ‘commodified’—that is, to being simply one of the many wares of a capitalist media market place, in a way that the badly paid and overworked writers and journalists for the revolutionary parties could rarely be.”

Chomsky’s business works something like this. He gives speeches on college campuses around the country at $12,000 a pop, often dozens of times a year.

Can’t go and hear him in person? No problem: you can go online and download clips from earlier speeches—for a fee. You can hear Chomsky talk for one minute about “Property Rights”; it will cost you 79 cents. You can also buy a CD with clips from previous speeches for $12.99.

But books are Chomsky’s mainstay, and on the international market he has become a publishing phenomenon. The Chomsky brand means instant sales. As publicist Dana O’Hare of Pluto Press explains: “All we have to do is put Chomsky’s name on a book and it sells out immediately!”

Putting his name on a book should not be confused with writing a book because his most recent volumes are mainly transcriptions of speeches, or interviews that he has conducted over the years, put between covers and sold to the general public. You might call it multi-level marketing for radicals. Chomsky has admitted as much: “If you look at the things I write—articles for Z Magazine, or books for South End Press, or whatever—they are mostly based on talks and meetings and that kind of thing. But I’m kind of a parasite. I mean, I’m living off the activism of others. I’m happy to do it.”

Chomsky’s marketing efforts shortly after September 11 give new meaning to the term war profiteer. In the days after the tragedy, he raised his speaking fee from $9,000 to $12,000 because he was suddenly in greater demand.

He also cashed in by producing another instant book. Seven Stories Press, a small publisher, pulled together interviews conducted via e-mail that Chomsky gave in the three weeks following the attack on the Twin Towers and rushed the book to press. His controversial views were hot, particularly overseas. By early December 2001, the pushlisher had sold the foreign rights in 19 different languages. The book made the best-seller list in the United States, Canada, Germany, India, Italy, Japan, and New Zealand. It is safe to assume that he netted hundreds of thousands of dollars from this book alone.

Over the years, Chomsky has been particularly critical of private property rights, which he considers simply a tool of the rich, of no benefit to ordinary people. “When property rights are granted to power and privilege, it can be expected to be harmful to most,” Chomsky wrote on a discussion board for the Washington Post. Intellectual property rights are equally despicable. According to Chomsky, for example, drug companies who have spent hundreds of millions of dollars developing drugs shouldn’t have ownership rights to patents. Intellectual property rights, he argues, “have to do with protectionism.”

Protectionism is a bad thing—especially when it relates to other people. But when it comes to Chomsky’s own published work, this advocate of open intellectual property suddenly becomes very selfish. It would not be advisable to download the audio from one of his speeches without paying the fee, warns his record company, Alternative Tentacles. (Did Andrei Sakharov have a licensing agreement with a record company?) And when it comes to his articles, you’d better keep your hands off. Go to the official Noam Chomsky website (www.chomsky.info) and the warning is clear: “Material on this site is copyrighted by Noam Chomsky and/or Noam Chomsky and his collaborators. No material on this site may be reprinted or posted on other web sites without written permission.” However, the website does give you the opportunity to “sublicense” the material if you are interested.

Radicals used to think of their ideas as weapons; Chomsky sees them as a licensing opportunity.

Chomsky has even gone the extra mile to protect the copyright to some of his material by transferring ownership to his children. Profits from those works will thus be taxed at his children’s lower rate. He also extends the length of time that the family is able to hold onto the copyright and protect his intellectual assets.

In October 2002, radicals gathered in Philadelphia for a benefit entitled “Noam Chomsky: Media and Democracy.” Sponsored by the Greater Philadelphia Democratic Left, for a fee of $15 you could attend the speech and hear the great man ruminate on the evils of capitalism. For another $35, you could attend a post-talk reception and he would speak directly with you.

During the speech, Chomsky told the assembled crowd, “A democracy requires a free, independent, and inquiring media.” After the speech, Deborah Bolling, a writer for the lefty Philadelphia City Paper, tried to get an interview with Chomsky. She was turned away. To talk to Chomsky, she was told, this “free, independent, and inquiring” reporter needed to pay $35 to get into the private reception.

Corporate America is one of Chomsky’s demons. It’s hard to find anything positive he might say about American business. He paints an ominous vision of America suffering under the “unaccountable and deadly rule of corporations.” He has called corporations “private tyrannies” and declared that they are “just as totalitarian as Bolshevism and fascism.” Capitalism, in his words, is a “grotesque catastrophe.”

But a funny thing happened on the way to the retirement portfolio.

Chomsky, for all of his moral dudgeon against American corporations, finds that they make a pretty good investment. When he made investment decisions for his retirement plan at MIT, he chose not to go with a money market fund or even a government bond fund. Instead, he threw the money into blue chips and invested in the TIAA-CREF stock fund. A look at the stock fund portfolio quickly reveals that it invests in all sorts of businesses that Chomsky says he finds abhorrent: oil companies, military contractors, pharmaceuticals, you name it.

When I asked Chomsky about his investment portfolio he reverted to a “what else can I do?” defense: “Should I live in a cabin in Montana?” he asked. It was a clever rhetorical dodge. Chomsky was declaring that there is simply no way to avoid getting involved in the stock market short of complete withdrawal from the capitalist system. He certainly knows better. There are many alternative funds these days that allow you to invest your money in “green” or “socially responsible” enterprises. They just don’t yield the maximum available return.
http://www.hoover.org/publications/digest/2912626.html


In a Socialist framework, Chomsky would be part of the intelligentsia, probably the equivalent of Joseph Goebbels in the National Socialist Party spewing propaganda; he, like Goebbels would also have a fortune tucked away somewhere safe like a Swiss bank account. Actions speak louder than words, these elite leaders of Socialist movements have no lack of access to wealth. Even Castro is a capitalist; would you care to deny that also?


Tax evading capitalist hypocrite.
_________________________
Little Miss Muffet sat on her tuffet, eating her curds and whey.
Along came a spider which sat down beside her and said,"Load a bowl, BBB bitch?!"


Top
#1509923 - 03/08/09 04:25 PM Re: dml [Re: benjamin]
snarfy Offline
Enthusiast
*

Registered: 11/28/08
Posts: 332
Loc: Ottawa
DML get an ideology dude!


Edited by snarfy (03/08/09 04:27 PM)

Top
#1509937 - 03/08/09 05:00 PM Re: Anti-communist brainwashing [Re: benjamin]
Luther Offline
Pooh-Bah
**

Registered: 03/05/05
Posts: 1756
Nice post. I love irony

Top
#1509969 - 03/08/09 06:45 PM Re: Anti-communist brainwashing [Re: benjamin]
davidmalmolevine Offline
Ganja God
***

Registered: 09/17/99
Posts: 21457
Loc: BC
I don't like Fidel and I haven't heard Chomsky's reply to these accusations ... I do know, however, that the author of the Chomsky hit piece is the Bush family's biographer.

Considering the war-profiteering, the Nazi Banking, the drug running, the Satan worshiping and the assassinations that the Bush family has been involved with, it seems to me that this author is looking for the splinter in the eyes of the liberals while ignoring the two-by-four in the eyes of the conservatives.
_________________________
"making the earth a common treasury for all, both rich and poor." Gerrard Winstanley; April 20, 1649

Top
#1509987 - 03/08/09 08:36 PM Re: Anti-communist brainwashing [Re: davidmalmolevine]
snarfy Offline
Enthusiast
*

Registered: 11/28/08
Posts: 332
Loc: Ottawa
DML dont overlook the elephant in the room!
There is likely JEWS involved
lol
ps. and I'm not talking about Noam,if you know what I mean


Edited by snarfy (03/08/09 09:00 PM)

Top
Page 17 of 23 < 1 2 ... 15 16 17 18 19 ... 22 23 >