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#1508962 - 03/05/09 09:46 PM Re: dml [Re: snarfy]
davidmalmolevine Offline
Ganja God
***

Registered: 09/17/99
Posts: 21457
Loc: BC
"OK brainiac so I can buy cigarettes from natives for 1.50 a pack but the same ones through government grief cost 10 bucks a pack.........are you completely fucked thinking that gov involvement will make things better for you or me?"

The only working model of cannabis distribution in the Western Wrold - Holland - has minimal government interference. I don't see why cannabis activists could not use the same pressure they defeated prohibition with to defeat over-regulation and monopoly too.

As well, there's HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS wasted on pills that could go to buying good herbs instead - if the price goes down for some cannabis and extracts the volume will certainly rise by a factor of ten. Plus you can always command the best prices for the best bud and best bubblehash.



"but I should'nt be surprised because far left commies like you..."

I'm a far left anarchist, not a communist.

Did you learn that "call everything you don't understand a communist" trick from Fox news? How original.





"For one an asshole like you wont be allowed to be involved in any gov controlled anything..."

I don't often listen to people who tell me how to live my life - that's why we're discussing the prospects of a post-legalization market model - enough of us "we allow ourselves" crowd ignored what we were allowed to do and did what we had a right to do.





"Actually I cant think of anyone who is doing more damage to the legalization cause than you"

And the evidence you're using to support this statement is ... ???
_________________________
"making the earth a common treasury for all, both rich and poor." Gerrard Winstanley; April 20, 1649

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#1508967 - 03/05/09 09:49 PM Re: Anti-communist brainwashing [Re: benjamin]
davidmalmolevine Offline
Ganja God
***

Registered: 09/17/99
Posts: 21457
Loc: BC

"It`s not communism anymore, it`s anarcosomeotherbullshit to keepfromcallingitcommunism, remember?"

Communism is hierarchical.

Anarchism is democratic / non-hierarchical.

It's easy to tell them apart. Communists give and take orders. Anarchists have meetings and attempt to address everyone's concerns.







"Anarchy: The piss poor excuse for extremists to sieze absolute power "

I must have missed that part of anarchist history ... when did the anarchists "seize" power?
_________________________
"making the earth a common treasury for all, both rich and poor." Gerrard Winstanley; April 20, 1649

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#1508969 - 03/05/09 09:55 PM Re: Anti-communist brainwashing [Re: benjamin]
energyhazard Offline
Old hand
***

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 974
Loc: Vancouver, BC
You are a strange man ben...are you drunk?

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#1509011 - 03/06/09 12:41 AM Re: Anti-communist brainwashing [Re: energyhazard]
benjamin Offline
Ganja God
**

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 5748
Loc: Grande Ronde Valley, NE Oregon...
 Originally Posted By: energyhazard
You are a strange man ben...are you drunk?


I`m truly surprised you think I`m drunk. I am also appalled that you are so unaware of the connections and alliances which have been formed between Marxists and Anarchist spinoffs for over a hundred years. Anarchy is very simply a myth which, because of its inherent lack of cohesion must eventually ally itself with organized parties. It matters not which extreme Anarchy binds with either. You obviously have not read enough communist partys` publications to understand the links between various left wing Anarchist groups and the role they have played in bringing about violent revolutions in which communists become heroes for restoring order. Something Anarchists never learn to their short lived regret is that when an armed revolution succeeds, all the Anarchists are the very first, after the previous regime`s government officials, to be liquidated.

Perhaps a good example would be the current trend of the left to embrace radical Islamic groups. I`m not talking about your run of the mill liberal left wing American, I`m talking about your anti capitalist, democracy hating radical Marxist class struggle left wing labor party members who people like Nancy Pelosi and, to a degree, Barack Obama appear to be pandering to.... yeah, the wealth redistribution crowd which believes humans can create a utopian self governed state which somehow transforms itself through some kind of tragic magic which actually believes that man is basically a good and well intentioned being. That`s a lie from the garbage dumps of the Roman Empire we know as Gehennah. Mankind is fundamentally evil in either an aggressive or a passive sense. I`m not really being such a good guy tearing DML a new one on this thread, am I? \:D

The World International Communist Current http://en.internationalism.org/wr/238_leftcom.htm
would be a good place for you to learn more about these glorious revolutionaries who promise something for nothing. I am not sure if you have ever paid enough attention to notice, but you seldomly find me criticizing my president here. Can you figure out why ? Here`s a clue. Selah.
_________________________
Little Miss Muffet sat on her tuffet, eating her curds and whey.
Along came a spider which sat down beside her and said,"Load a bowl, BBB bitch?!"


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#1509012 - 03/06/09 12:51 AM Re: What`s wrong with anti communist sentiment? [Re: energyhazard]
benjamin Offline
Ganja God
**

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 5748
Loc: Grande Ronde Valley, NE Oregon...
 Originally Posted By: energyhazard
You are a strange man ben...are you drunk?


While you`re trying to untangle the intellectual bullshit deceptions posted at the International Communist Current web site, look at what Gorby had to say.

AP Interview: Gorbachev criticizes Putin's party
By DAN PERRY, Associated Press Writer Dan Perry, Associated Press Writer
Thu Mar 5, 6:19 pm ET

MOSCOW – In some of his strongest criticism of his successors, Mikhail Gorbachev on Thursday likened Vladimir Putin's United Russia party to the worst of the communists he once led and helped bring down, and said Russia is today a country where the parliament and the judiciary are not fully free.

In an interview with The Associated Press some 20 years after the Soviet empire started its rapid collapse on his tumultuous watch, Gorbachev also said the global economic crisis showed capitalism should be tempered with elements of the socialist system he played such a critical role in sweeping away.

The last Soviet leader was interviewed in the offices of his Gorbachev Foundation, a think tank founded in 1992 to promote "democratic values and moral, humanistic principles" — as well as, some say, Gorbachev himself. A little aged and more heavyset perhaps, Gorbachev, 78, seemed feisty, friendly and often reminiscent of the man who once ruled one of two superpowers on Earth.

Gorbachev is a paradoxical figure even after all these years — widely credited around the world with a historic convulsion he admits he did not intend. He sought to fix communism, not destroy it, and in the interview said that while he was willing to let Eastern Europe go its own way he very much hoped the republics that formed the Soviet Union would stay united.

"I was a resolute opponent of the breakup of the union," said Gorbachev, who was forced to step down on Dec. 25, 1991, as the country he led ceased to exist.

He still holds out hope that one day Ukraine, Kazakhstan and Belarus will join with Russia in forming a new union.

He seemed to view the global meltdown as partly the result of years of Western hubris and excess.

"The American media trumpeted ... about the victory in the Cold War, that socialism is down. This disease of extreme self-confidence led to it — the (belief) that things would always go on this way. And it did last long ... I think that now everyone is learning a hard lesson."

"It is necessary to overcome these mistakes of super-consumerism, of super-profits." he said. "We have to think about finding — through the G20 or other institutions — new models of development (and) cooperation."

The world should look for a composite system, he said, which incorporates "the past experience of all that the capitalist system brings, like competitiveness, and what socialism gives — especially a social safety net."

Gorbachev also said the moment was right for improved U.S.-Russia relations, expressed skepticism about the wisdom of Ukraine joining NATO, and called on the world community to head off the prospect of an Iranian nuclear weapon not with confrontation but rather "a maximal dialogue."

"Let (Iran) integrate itself into the global community, build normal relations," he said.

Gorbachev had harsh words for the current Russian leadership, singling out United Russia, the party Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has built into a political juggernaut at the center of a tremendously centralized — albeit popular — power structure.

"I criticize United Russia a lot, and I do it directly," the last Soviet leader said. "It is a party of bureaucrats and the worst version of the CPSU" — the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. "Regarding our parliament, I cannot say that it is independent (and) also our judiciary does not fully comply with the provisions of the constitution."

Is the world waiting for such advice? If there are takers, most will be outside Russia, where he has become a rather marginal political figure: For every Russian who appreciates his role in ending communism there are certainly many more inclined to blame him for the privations of the process he unleashed: the impoverishment many suffered in the 1990s, the vastly unequal distribution of wealth that bedevils society even today, the failings of Russian democracy — and the humiliating loss of the once-vast empire ruled from the Kremlin.

Asked about the fateful Nov. 9, 1989, when the Berlin Wall fell, Gorbachev said that he never contemplated force to stop the process that within months saw most of the Warsaw Pact break free. He said it was inevitable that the states of that region would be free to do as they wished.

Yet even in Eastern Europe, as the region gears up to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the fall of communism, Gorbachev gets only the rarest of mentions and he is forced to share credit for the revolution with a slew of others — Poland's Lech Walesa, Vaclav Havel, Ronald Reagan and the late Pope John Paul II.

"We live more freely now than in the communist era because of what he did and achieved," said Peter Nagy, a 37-year-old public employee in Budapest. "However, he was still the leader of a dictatorial system, not a democrat. I would not accept him today as a leader."

Havel, the former Czech president, in his memoirs "To the Castle and Back" described Gorbachev as both a special and tragic case and said the collapse of communism would have been much more violent without him.

In Warsaw, former anti-communist dissident Adam Michnik said he feels "great gratitude" toward Gorbachev. "I don't have the slightest doubt that it was Gorbachev and his policy of glasnost and perestroika that opened the gates for the great changes that first took place in our country and then in this part of the continent," Michnik said.

In the interview, Gorbachev was philosophical about his declining political fortunes.

"Personally, as a politician, I lost. But the idea that I conveyed and the project that I carried out, it played a huge role in the world and the country. But now the situation is such that more and more people are starting to understand what Gorbachev did ...

"But anyway, we have gone far, and there's no return."

Gorbachev laughed when asked whether his recent appearance in Louis Vuitton ads might not cheapen such a momentous legacy, saying his foundation needed the money. He noted that he had also once appeared in Pizza Hut ads, and asked if any other offers might be forthcoming. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090305/ap_on_re_eu/eu_russia_gorbachev/print

Not even Gorby can lose his delusions of trying to fix something which can not be rehabilitated. Something Gorby obviously can not grasp is that the United States already has resorted to forms of Socialism in the past for the purpose of preventing the country from falling into a state of Anarchy; that always ends badly.


_________________________
Little Miss Muffet sat on her tuffet, eating her curds and whey.
Along came a spider which sat down beside her and said,"Load a bowl, BBB bitch?!"


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#1509013 - 03/06/09 02:00 AM Re: dml [Re: davidmalmolevine]
benjamin Offline
Ganja God
**

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 5748
Loc: Grande Ronde Valley, NE Oregon...
 Quote:
The only working model of cannabis distribution in the Western Wrold - Holland - has minimal government interference. I don't see why cannabis activists could not use the same pressure they defeated prohibition with to defeat over-regulation and monopoly too.


I have no idea where you get the idea that Holland`s cannabis cafes are loosely regulated by the government. I`m certain that you could easily be fooled into thinking that based on the reputation the Dutch have not just for tolerance, but also its citizen`s willingness to comply with laws and regulations.



Amsterdam to Shut 43 Cannabis Cafes
Amsterdam is being forced to close 43 of its 228 cannabis-selling cafes to meet national regulations. The establishments, including the world famous Bulldog, are simply too close to highschools.

Amsterdam is being forced to close 43 of its 228 cannabis-selling cafes to meet national regulations, Amsterdam mayor Job Cohen announced Friday at the presentation of a memorandum on the city's drugs policy.


REUTERS
Amsterdam is shutting down some of its more popular tourist attractions.
The cafes, known as coffee shops, have to be closed down by the end of 2011 because they are less than 250 meters from highschools. The city currently has some 228 outlets selling marijuana under licence.

The measure stems from national government rules on moving coffee shops away from schools attended by children over the age of 12. Last year, Rotterdam told 18 cafes they had to close down because of this rule.

One of those set to vanish from Amsterdam is the famous Bulldog cafe on the city’s Leidseplein which is housed in a former police station and was opened over 20 years ago. It is too close to the city's prestigious Barlaeus high school.

In an interview, Amsterdam mayor Job Cohen makes it clear that he is following the government’s directive under duress. "It is possible that moving the coffee shops further away [from schools] will result in street trade and a growing number of drug runners. Young people could have easier access to drugs and it could also mean more work for the police," Cohen said.


Political youth groups warn of a 'lost generation'Like the majority of mayors in towns where coffee shops sell cannabis, Cohen is happy with the existing policy on soft drugs but would like to see regulation of the whole cannabis trade. "I want an equal policy for soft drugs and alcohol," Cohen said.

At present the authorities turn an official blind eye to the sale and consumption of cannabis but ban the large-scale cultivation of marijuana plants and the wholesale trade.

Cohen is to call for the legalization of cannabis production at a “cannabis summit” of local councils in the central city of Almere later on Friday. This will make the sector easier to control and reduce the involvement of organized crime, he said.

Around 25 percent of tourists coming to Amsterdam visit a cannabis cafe, Cohen said. But these tourists cause much less of a nuisance than foreigners who drink alcohol, according to the mayor.

Cohen also argues that the Netherlands should not be afraid of the reaction of other countries to its tolerant policy on soft drugs, saying: "Research shows that young people in Amsterdam don't use more soft drugs than their peers in France, which has a repressive drug policy." http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,591970,00.html

Take note:Even legal weed has problems with organized criminal activities.

Why the number of coffeeshops is dwindling
While there is a demand, licences for new coffeeshops are rarely given. Instead, municipal governments follow a so-called Extinction Policy:

Break the rules and you’re out
Since 2003, the service industry — which includes coffeeshops and prostitutes — has been faced with regular checkups performed under BIBOB (’Act for the Promotion of Integrity Evaluations by Public Government’) laws. These laws are intended to prevent the involvement of organized crime. Enforcement teams randomly ‘raid’ coffeeshops with all the subtlety of American-style SWAT operations.


A coffeeshop is ordered to close down if the rules under which it was allowed to operate have been violated three times. Generally, the shop in question is boarded shut, and the owner loses his license to operate a coffeeshop.

No replacement shops
If a coffeeshop closes, for whatever reason, no new shop is allowed to take its place
No more hashcafés
Until recently, Amsterdam had a number of hashcafés where — in contrast to coffeeshops — both alcohol and soft drugs were sold. Under the so-called extension policy, they were not allowed to transfer their licenses. If a hashcafé closed, no new one could take its place.
As of April Fools day, 2007, all hashcafés had to decide whether they would continue as coffeeshops or as cafés. Of the 44 shops, 7 opted to convert to pubs. http://www.dutchamsterdam.nl/183-are-amsterdams-coffeeshops-about-to-disappear

Hardly any strict government control over Holland`s cannabis cafes??? \:D \:D Got any more news from Utopia, comrade Levineski?


_________________________
Little Miss Muffet sat on her tuffet, eating her curds and whey.
Along came a spider which sat down beside her and said,"Load a bowl, BBB bitch?!"


Top
#1509016 - 03/06/09 03:15 AM Re: Anti-communist brainwashing [Re: benjamin]
davidmalmolevine Offline
Ganja God
***

Registered: 09/17/99
Posts: 21457
Loc: BC
"I am also appalled that you are so unaware of the connections and alliances which have been formed between Marxists and Anarchist spinoffs for over a hundred years."

For example?




"Anarchy is very simply a myth which, because of its inherent lack of cohesion must eventually ally itself with organized parties."

Having no ruler doesn't mean you have no cohesion or organization. You should travel to see Christiania so you can see anarchist cohesion and organization in practice.



"The World International Communist Current http://en.internationalism.org/wr/238_leftcom.htm
would be a good place for you to learn more about these glorious revolutionaries who promise something for nothing."

You provided a link to a communist website that attacks anarchism. And this is supposed to help you prove anarchists and communists are the same ... how?
_________________________
"making the earth a common treasury for all, both rich and poor." Gerrard Winstanley; April 20, 1649

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#1509017 - 03/06/09 03:18 AM Re: dml [Re: benjamin]
GreenB Offline
Stranger

Registered: 03/05/09
Posts: 24
The 43 coffeeshops have untill the next elections. The mayor of Amsterdam, Job Cohen, dont want to close them.

The schools dont want to close them (they would be to nearly to a school). Nobody but the religion party's want to close our coffeeshops.

But not when we real Dutch are still alive.

At the moment the politics give direct orders to the police to do something about the growups. But they know its impossible to erase us growers.

So waiting for the next elections so we can erase our self the relion politics.

For the information. The politics at the moment are not supported by the Dutch people. They have put themselfs in "Den Haag", the political capital.

We ducth need to organize now, and a few groups are doing that at this moment. But it will be a fight.

Holland is not Holland from 15 years ago. Everything is still open, but under fire.

Hope that you peepz have something from this fist hand information.

Greetz from the Green Flat Ducth Country

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#1509018 - 03/06/09 03:20 AM Re: dml [Re: GreenB]
GreenB Offline
Stranger

Registered: 03/05/09
Posts: 24
Bye the way, its true that the drink and coffeeshop is closed. Well they only sell weed now. Bars enough.

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#1509019 - 03/06/09 03:21 AM Re: dml [Re: GreenB]
GreenB Offline
Stranger

Registered: 03/05/09
Posts: 24
http://www.dutchamsterdam.nl/183-are-amsterdams-coffeeshops-about-to-disappear *********************

TOTAL CRAP..... We are still alive!!!!

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