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#1503360 - 02/19/09 06:36 PM Re: An Overview of Cannabis Training (ScrOG, SoG, FIM *** [Re: Hazedaze]
Cannadude420 Offline
Super Stoner
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Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 4083
Loc: Pencil Neck Town
 Originally Posted By: Hazedaze
I am also using a different variation of this technique... Is this the kind of place to post our different varieties of training for comparison? I wouldn't want to hijack.


Go for it bro! I would love to see every possible variation and technique of training cannabis on this thread.

Please be my guest
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#1503455 - 02/19/09 11:29 PM Re: An Overview of Cannabis Training (ScrOG, SoG, FIM [Re: Cannadude420]
baller24 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/19/09
Posts: 58
How long is the recovery time for an indica strain plant if i topped it. It is about a month old, maybe older. How long until it starts to make new branches?

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#1503552 - 02/20/09 08:49 AM Re: An Overview of Cannabis Training (ScrOG, SoG, FIM [Re: baller24]
Cannadude420 Offline
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Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 4083
Loc: Pencil Neck Town
The recovery is almost immediate. Within 2 weeks max you will have 2 fast growing tops.

I normally top my babies at the 5th or 6th internode.
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#1503642 - 02/20/09 01:08 PM Re: An Overview of Cannabis Training (ScrOG, SoG, FIM [Re: Cannadude420]
Hazedaze Offline
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Registered: 12/09/08
Posts: 456
Loc: Trapped in the Closet
Be warned that this is my first grow, these genetics are inconsistent at best, and that I really don't have any idea what I'm doing, or any real long-term plan. Whew, disclaimer out of the way, we can get on with this.

The Halfass HazeDaze Training Overview

Hokay, so I use a combination of light and heavy stress training in different applications, as needed. Let's start with the high stress.

High Stress Training

Once the plants get about this big, I begin to pinch the new growth tip. Once you tie them down or get radical with pinching/topping and they start growing more new tips, you will have more to choose from.



This practice helps to redistribute primary growth hormones within the plant, causing it to grow out more, and up less. Pinching stalls primary upward growth for a week or so, allowing the plant to focus on it's branching and lower growth.

I pinch about once a week after the plants show 5 nodes. I will only do this maybe three times to each plant, after that it starts to slow the growth significantly. I will part the upper-most fan leaves, exposing just the growth bud. Definitely wait to do any pinching until the growth bud has just created a new node, and there are not full new leaves coming out. Otherwise you will mess up the new fan leaves and the pinching won't have much of an effect. Pinch whichever growth tips are growing faster and higher than the rest. Remember that you're trying to create an even canopy of growth. Slow down the fast growth, and help the slower growth.

So far, pinching seems to be hit and miss. Sometimes I will pinch and the plant just grows a new main stem instead of slowing down at all, or growing two. Pinching is sort of a backup technique, something simple to reinforce the bush growth pattern we're aiming for with the Low Stress Training. I reccomend FIM or topping over pinching I think.

Sorry, no overview of FIM for this post, I don't think I've ever actually done it correctly. Haha. Moving on.

Low Stress Training

I use mostly low stress training to achieve the results that I want. Do you grow or veg with CFLs? I highly, highly recommend you use some of these techniques.

The backbone of this kind of training is the stem pinching technique. The idea is to decide which growth you want where, and then pinch the stem at the critical place to weaken it and allow it to be moved/bent. This is what I mean.



Check out that growth tip on the upper left. I achieved that bend, and all the others, with stem pinching.

Pick a spot on any stem at which you would like the stem to bend and go somewhere else. Taking the stem between your thumb and index finger, slowly apply increasing pressure. As you pinch, roll the stem back and forth a little (less than 45 degrees, if you want to get specific). You should pinch until the stem is no longer tough/hard and becomes more squishy and rubbery. The amount of pinching required for a stem to be squished varies with plant age, and stem position on the plant. The thicker and woodier the stems are, the more pinching you will have to do. Newer growth is easier, so get on this before your plants get too big...

Gently bend the stem back and forth, it should be almost unable to support itself. Now you have a choice to make.

You can bend the stems down well past the point of being perpendicular to the main upright stem, and just leave them to reorient themselves. Or, you can bend the stem, put it where you want it, and tie it down.

In this picture, the two second-highest stems were bent down and left to recover. Look close and you'll see them at the third node down from the top.



I just tuck them down and leave them a lot. The plants will raise the stems back up within 24 hours, and you will have noticed a significant growth spurt in the stems you bent by 48 hours. The same plant, five days later...



All apologies for the poor angle of that shot, but you can see that Gladys is becoming a nice little bush.

This also helps the plant focus it's growth on the branches lower than the ones you bent, and therefore grow out; not up.

This can (and should) be done to the main stem as well, and in this way you can get the kind of thing Cannadude posted earlier- horizontal plants. I didn't really follow that method to the T... but being creative and trying new things usually ends in me learning a lot. I would recommend adapting these techniques for yourself, try new stuff!

I like to tie the stem down at a 90 degree angle to its original position. Like this.



You can, however, take that one step further. If you carefully bend your plants further down, eventually they can be tied to themselves, causing a 180 degree bend in the main stem. This is easy, and will give you great results.

Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of this, but it worked out great for me, I guess you'll just have to trust me on that. When the stem is tied to itself, suddenly all the lower growth is getting direct light. This causes the plant to react and send Auxins down the stem to new places, causing more new growth shoots to develop. But you've read enough about that already.

You can tie your plants to whatever, really. I used a paperclip and a lighter to melt little holes in the rims of my pots. Use some nylon, hemp, or whatever kind of rope, and you're in business.

Or, use some $Free.99 metal garden screen you have or come across. I wrapped it around the pot and bent it together to keep it there, like so.



Suddenly you have plenty of tie points, and with your handy dandy pinching techniques you can make your plant look however you would like it to look.

Go to town. I leave mine tied for about a week at a time, before adjusting the placement and tying them again. This is what I got.



I wondered as well, what happens when you just tie them once and leave them? It turns out, this.



This is Henrietta. Here you can see I pinched her terminal growth bud, causing the main stem to split. I think this can be done earlier than topping, but I'm not sure. It worked for me...

She went from this...


To this.


One pinch, and two ties that I never untied. It really couldn't have been easier. The other plants, being tied and untied on a weekly basis, have required a lot more maintenance than good ol Henrietta.

You can see how easy it is to do this... you can get some fairly solid results if you just top/FIM/pinch and tie down once.

Hopefully this shed some light on something new, or at least gave you an example of just how half-assed you can do this and still get great results.

Peace out, and remember that the important thing is to grow weed. Haha
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#1506336 - 02/26/09 07:31 PM Re: An Overview of Cannabis Training (ScrOG, SoG, FIM [Re: Hazedaze]
Cannadude420 Offline
Super Stoner
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Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 4083
Loc: Pencil Neck Town

An excellent posting! Thank you so much for this valuable contribution to this infant thread. I started to take images for my own personal inclusion. Let's see those trained ladies \:\)
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#1506339 - 02/26/09 07:41 PM Re: An Overview of Cannabis Training (ScrOG, SoG, FIM [Re: Cannadude420]
muadhib Offline

Cult Leader
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Registered: 02/24/08
Posts: 1824
Loc: WA
That's the S.H.I.T. Super High Intensity Training.

I think everyone should do this at least once. Fun stuff, if'n ya like observin' shit.


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#1507560 - 03/02/09 01:10 AM Re: An Overview of Cannabis Training (ScrOG, SoG, FIM [Re: muadhib]
ceasdamonsta Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 22
Loc: Belly Of Da Beast
This def was the shit, I've been doing a lot of reading,(a lot), but this post helped me understand stress training way more than just reading about it.

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#1507674 - 03/02/09 11:52 AM Re: An Overview of Cannabis Training (ScrOG, SoG, FIM [Re: ceasdamonsta]
G-ice Offline
Stoner
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Registered: 02/11/09
Posts: 601
Great work HazeDaze, I will certainly be availing of your post come growing season \:D

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#1507761 - 03/02/09 02:57 PM Re: An Overview of Cannabis Training (ScrOG, SoG, FIM [Re: G-ice]
Hot Poke Salad Offline
Old hand
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Registered: 09/08/08
Posts: 929
Loc: Alabama
I'm not sure how I missed this thread. Great post Canna!
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It's fucking ridiculous that a grown man should have to grow a plant in a goddamn plastic tote..."
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#1513205 - 03/16/09 10:02 AM Re: An Overview of Cannabis Training (ScrOG, SoG, FIM [Re: Hot Poke Salad]
Cannadude420 Offline
Super Stoner
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Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 4083
Loc: Pencil Neck Town
As I promised, I would display my techniques for the toping and light stress training (lst) of my cannabis plants.

I am currently vegging out 9 new babies (100% germination results) of various pheno types.

Imaged are:

Cotton Canday, Black Russian and(to its immediate rear) Grape Fruit Indica. With the exception of the Cotton Candy, they are all clones (thus female and the only 3 certainities I have):



2 Black Dominas (front and rear) and 2 Santa Marias:



2 God Skunks:



Here they are all together:




As per establishe gro-offs, here are my details. I will select the God Skunk for my lst display:



Date: see the posting date
Genetic: Indica dominant - GOD SKUNK
Plant Age: 3 Weeks since germination. Date of Germination: 2009-02-23
System: By hand watering from above
Grow Medium: 3 parts Lambert-Mix,2 parts compost,1 part perlite. Into each gallon of medium I add: 2 tbsp bat guano, 1 tbsp blood meal,2 tbsp bone meal

Lighting: For the germination and seedling grow (4 tube T5HO at 2 foot length = 2 x 6500° K and 2 x 3000° K for a Full Spectrum effect)
Distance: inch, perhaps 2 inches
Cycle: 24hours on

Environmental Conditions

Temperature: 18c
Humidity: 35%
Ventilation [out]: Ambient
Ventilation [in]: Ambient
Heater: NIL
Air Conditioner: NIL/ambient
Odour Control: NIL/ambient

Water Conditions: Excellent! However, need to evaporate the chlorine overnight
H20 Type: City provided water
Reservoir Aeration: NIL
Reservoir Size: NIL
Temperature: 18c
pH: 6.0 to 6.5
TDS content [PPM]: Unknown

Feeding Solution

Nutrient Solution: NIL
Nutrient Levels: Drawn from the soil( as in organics)
Additives: Note above provided amendments
Additive Levels: See above
Foliar Feed: NIL

Plant Health / Stats

Plant Height: 10cm
Bud Density: NIL
Trichome Production: NIL
Internode Spacing: 2 to 3 cm


CANNA's TRAINING TECHNIQUE



Imaged is a God Skunk (indica dominant) of unknown sex. Germinated approximately 3 weeks ago, the plant had obtained what I deem to be sufficient height to sustain topping.

Normally, I will top the plant at the 3rd to 4th internode. You will note that I topped this baby at the 3rd. Normally I want to see some side branch development before I will even consider topping.

For the topping, I use a high quality pair of gardening trimmers (razor sharp) and I cut just below the next internode set. This will force the branches below to become the 2 new tops of the plant. These 2 tops will be later manipulated via lst techinique as I will demonstrate over the next few weeks.


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