That`s a little too harsh for me Hand. Just because George W. Bush was labled a fascist is not a license to label our new president a communist, or identify him as such through comparisons to Lenin.

By the way, it should come as no surprise to find out that president Obama turns out to be even more vigorous and deadly in response to terrorist organizations and states who sponsor them.
Right now Obama is going to be involved up to his chin in the credit crunch and the rest of our economic woes to be burdened with cheap shots from the right. If he does get involved in negotiations with groups like Hamas or Hizbullah, he`ll probably end up as disappointed as any past American president who tried to deal with people like Yasser Arabrat and the PLO.

I sharply disagree with this point of view. The only thing in common with these two military operations was the indisputable fact that Lebanon and Gaza were both being used as bases from which attacks against Israel were carried out.

Palestinian concentration camp in Libnon

t is the lack of religion that brings killing and violence. Much more than religion itself.

Now, there is one exception. Look at the wars around you and tell me which religion is involved in almost all of them? Yes, there is only one that covers Sudan, Serbia, Chechnia, Lebanon, Central-Africa, Iraq,North Africa, Far East and Gaza. Wherever they are - there is war.

Draw your conclusions...

Bah! Be off with ye Davey. Talk is cheap dude. You and I are proof enough of that.

Norman Finkelstein has assembled two columns of pictures — one from Nazi Germany and the other from Israeli Palestine — in order to demonstrate the resemblance between the two. And it’s quite remarkable. Although, of course, the pictures from Palestine are in color. But there are enough images coming out of Israeli Palestine to match the scenario clusters pretty close to exactly.
Have a look see. Nice job Norman. Thanks.
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=2510

The other thing that the Nazis and the Israelis have in common is that their leading sponsors were/are both infamously headquartered in the United States.

Engdahl identifies Hitler’s sponsors as a banking establishment headquartered in New York and London (Chapter 6 — Anglo Americans Close Ranks) — key word phrase J. Henry Schroder (scroll down for Org Chart), but when you google it , the engine takes out Engdahl’s “e” and the meme heats up a bit:

Obviously someone’s going to have picked out the lines that connect Nazi Europe with the Bush Family

But I think the most interesting one is Chapter 5 of Anthony Sampson’s Sovereign State of ITT ( International Telephone and Telegraph ) which hits the ground running with a list of affiliates of the Directors of I.T.T – also identified sponsors of Nazi Europe’s rise to power.

Who’s at the top of the list?

J.P. Morgan. D’oh.

Well. They’re on the first Who Owns the Federal Reserve link too.

They should be on everyone’s list.

But now we’re looking at Bank of America and United Fruit too ffs, also known as Chiquita (infamous sponsors of genocide in Colombia — and Guatemala, if you have a little history under your belt)).

They think they can just change their names and everyone’s going to loose the trail, but the silly buggers keep generating crime scenes.

Edwin Black’s new book is coming out in March (Nazi Nexus (we were expecting it sooner, but what have you)) . . . and that should definitely clean up more than a few loose ends.

(My copy of Carla’s Book is inthemail yay!)

Obviously Israel isn’t taking a big painful bite out of the Levant on the measly $20 Billion the “US Government” has given them just since 9/11. Even if you factor in the additional $12 Billion the “United States” has given Egypt in the same time period — that’s not going to cover the cost of even the occupation of Palestine. Where’s the money coming from to support the long arm of their monstrous propaganda mill — that’s only beginning to fail around the edges?

Even the diamonds they’re getting out of the Congo (Israel’s top export) wouldn’t begin to cover the cost of the Israeli War Machine (which starts to look kinda tiny, once you realized who, or what, they’re patterned after).

For comparison’s sake, it’s instructive to look at where the money for the Iraq/Afghanistan is going. In other words, who is collecting the returns?

Close to half of it is going into the pockets of Unnamed Foreign Entities — not to be confused with the foreign entities that can be named throughout the rest of the list of the top 100 profiteers in the Iraq and Afghanistan Corporate Incursions.

It’s coming from everywhere and nowhere and that’s where it’s going too. Much more so than the money that gave life to the Nazi War Machine — a fact that General Knowledge is a long way from comprehending.

But we’re getting there. Tippy. Go ahead and hold your breath.

http://microdot.gnn.tv/blogs/30854/Nazi_Israeli_Holocaust_Photomontage

Israel Accused of Executing Parents in Front of Children in Gaza

Israel has refuted allegations of war atrocities in Gaza after Palestinian children described how their parents had been "executed" by Israeli troops.

January 21, 2009 "The Telegraph" -- One nine-year-old boy said his father had been shot dead in front of him despite surrendering to Israeli soldiers with his hands in the air. Another youngster described witnessing the deaths of his mother, three brothers and uncle after the house they were in was shelled. He said his mother and one of his siblings had been killed instantly, while the others bled to death over a period of days. A psychiatrist treating children in the village of Zeitoun on the outskirts of Gaza City, where the alleged incidents took place, described the deaths as a "massacre". Rawya Borno, a Jordanian doctor, said civilians, including children, were rounded up and killed by Israeli troops.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21818.htm

... the camps were used to confine and control large numbers of civilians as part of a scorched earth tactic. At the time that Kitchener started the concentration camps in South Africa the war had entered the guerilla phase. By destroying crops, livestock and farmsteads under the 'Scorched Earth' policy the Boer fighters were deprived of supplies and shelter. It also left the women and children on such farms destitute and they were forcibly removed, against their will, to the camps where thousands died of disease and starvation. Use of the word concentration comes from the idea of concentrating a group of people who are in some way undesirable in one place, where they can be watched by those who incarcerated them. For example, in a time of insurgency, potential supporters of the insurgents are placed where they cannot provide them with supplies or information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentration_camp#Concentration_camps

Gaza is being suffocated from the outside in; the thin strip of land, one of the most densely populated territories in the world, often referred to as an open air prison has surely turned into a modern day concentration camp. ... 9000 heavily equipped Nazis with artillery and tanks sought to destroy the Warsaw Ghetto warriors. It is a celebrated fact that 1000 militarily inexperienced Jews with little ammunition inspiringly rose up to resist and fight the Nazis. The amazing Jewish uprising helped to save many children who survive today as the holocaust survivors. The Palestinians, in their retort to the vicious occupation and siege on Gaza, much like their Jewish brothers, heroically resist in the same honour and bravery. . ... Avram Berg, a former Israel policy maker said that there were two types of people that came out of Auschwitz. People who say NEVER AGAIN FOR THE JEWISH PEOPLE. And the others say NEVER AGAIN FOR ANYONE! - http://www.uruknet.info/?p=50227

The Gaza Strip is one of the most densely populated places on earth with 3,823 persons per km2. ... In Gaza approximately 80% of Palestinians are now living in poverty; 35% of them are classified as “extremely impoverished”. ... Due to constant closures, the movement of essential commodities through Sufa and Kerem Shalom crossings has been massively restricted. Gaza now suffers shortages of essential commodities, such as powdered milk, rice and vegetable oil. The resulting rise in market prices has made it extremely difficult for families to have an adequate, healthy and balanced diet. ... there are ongoing shortages of chronic disease drugs and anaesthetics, and a considerable portion of equipment and machines are out of order, overloading the remaining capacity of hospitals. Also according to UNRWA, 22% of Gaza homes are not connected to the sewage system

http://www.end-gaza-siege.ps/AboutGaza.htm


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip#Concentration_camp_comparisons

http://www.videosift.com/video/Dozens-of-UN-representatives-denounces-Israel-s-actions

The Gaza Ghetto Uprising
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article10110.shtml

Warsaw Ghetto uprising vs Gaza slaughter
http://hanssuter.typepad.com/folder/2009/01/warsaw-ghetto-vs-gaza.html

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7§ion=0&article=107394&d=2&m=3&y=2008

http://www.google.ca/search?um=1&hl=en&q=Warsaw%20Ghetto%20uprising%20Gaza&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw

I have no dispute that Gaza is the world`s largest prison. My only disagreement deals with the issue of the reasons why Gaza became isolated even from their Arab neighbors in Egypt.
Rocket attacks, suicide bombers, snipers, kidnappings and Hamas

Hamas Principles
The principles of the Hamas are stated in their Covenant or Charter, given in full below. Following are highlights.

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."


Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim).

Any and all comparisons are rendered null and void by the behavior of Hamas and other splinter groups inside Lebanon, Gaza and the West Bank.


Search for explosives at Israeli checkpoint.


The Israelis simply decided, for a very good reason, that it was no longer safe to allow Gazans into their country. The comparison fails when the facts surrounding the issue are fully explained. Besides, if Europeans had not hunted down their Jews and killed them, we wouldn`t even have to talk about Gaza or Israel. What`s your point? Those who`ve made war against Israel suffer?Well they should suffer for what they have done. Please try some other way to portray these so called Palestinians as innocent victims.

"The Israelis simply decided, for a very good reason, that it was no longer safe to allow Gazans into their country."

So all of Gaza is being punished for what the Hamas leadership decided. Which is sort of like punishing all of Israel for what the Israeli leadership decided.

Except:

It's illegal to occupy the land of another nation (therefore Israel, unlike Palestine, is breaking international law).

and

Israel decided to discriminate first.


"Hamas was created in 1987 ..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas

AFTER ALL THIS HAD TAKEN PLACE:

Since the inception of Zionism, its leaders have been keen on creating a "Jewish State" based on a "Jewish majority" by mass immigration of Jews to Palestine, primarily European Jews fleeing from anti-Semitic Tsarist Russia and Nazi Germany. When a "Jewish majority" was impossible to achieve, based on Jewish immigration and natural growth, Zionist leaders (such as Ben Gurion, Moshe Sharett, Ze'ev Jabotinsky, and Chaim Weizmann) concluded that "population transfer" was the only solution to what they referred to as the "Arab Problem." Year after year, the plan to ethnically cleanse Palestine of its indigenous people became known as the "transfer solution". David Ben-Gurion, the first Israeli Prime Minister, eloquently articulated the "transfer solution" as the following:

* In a joint meeting between the Jewish Agency Executive and Zionist Action Committee on June 12th, 1938:

"With compulsory transfer we [would] have a vast area [for settlement] .... I support compulsory transfer. I don't see anything immoral in it." (Righteous Victims p. 144).
* In a speech addressing the Central Committee of the Histadrut on December 30, 1947:
"In the area allocated to the Jewish State there are not more than 520,000 Jews and about 350,000 non-Jews, mostly Arabs. Together with the Jews of Jerusalem, the total population of the Jewish State at the time of its establishment, will be about one million, including almost 40% non-Jews. such a [population] composition does not provide a stable basis for a Jewish State. This [demographic] fact must be viewed in all its clarity and acuteness. With such a [population] composition, there cannot even be absolute certainty that control will remain in the hands of the Jewish majority .... There can be no stable and strong Jewish state so long as it has a Jewish majority of only 60%." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 176 & Benny Morris p. 28)
* And on February 8th, 1948 Ben-Gurion also stated to the Mapai Council:.
"From your entry into Jerusalem, through Lifta, Romema [East Jerusalem Palestinian neighborhood]. . . there are no [Palestinian] Arabs. One hundred percent Jews. Since Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans, it has not been Jewish as it is now. In many [Palestinian] Arab neighborhoods in the west one sees not a single [Palestinian] Arab. I do not assume that this will change. . . . What had happened in Jerusalem. . . . is likely to happen in many parts of the country. . . in the six, eight, or ten months of the campaign there will certainly be great changes in the composition of the population in the country." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 180-181)
* In a speech addressing the Zionist Action Committee on April 6th, 1948:.

"We will not be able to win the war if we do not, during the war, populate upper and lower, eastern and western Galilee, the Negev and Jerusalem area ..... I believe that war will also bring in its wake a great change in the distribution of Arab population." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 181)
* Click here for more "Transfer" (Ethnic Cleansing) quotes from Zionist leaders.

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story417.html


Here in the United States, American children are taught early on that it was necessary to drop nuclear weapons on Japanese civilians in order to save American lives and end WWII. Similarly, many Americans see such an action appropriate because they were attacked in Pearl Harbor. On the other hand, a Palestinian has no right to defend his home which has been looted by persecuted European Jews; and if he does, then he is the terrorist!

In that respect, I like to remind Israelis and Westerners of what Moshe Dayan stated at the funeral of an Israeli farmer killed by a Palestinian in 1956:

". . . Let us not today fling accusation at the murderers. What cause have we to complain about their fierce hatred to us? For eight years now, they sit in their refugee camps in Gaza, and before their eyes we turn into our homestead the land and villages in which they and their forefathers have lived.

We should demand his blood not from the [Palestinian] Arabs of Gaza but from ourselves. . . . Let us make our reckoning today. We are a generation of settlers, and without the steel helmet and gun barrel, we shall not be able to plant a tree or build a house. . . . Let us not be afraid to see the hatred that accompanies and consumes the lives of hundreds of thousands of [Palestinian] Arabs who sit all around us and wait for the moment when their hands will be able to reach our blood." (Iron Wall, p. 101)

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Articles/General/Story8871.html





In July 2004, The International Court of Justice delivered an Advisory Opinion on the 'Legal Consequences of the Construction of a Wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory'. The Court observed that under customary international law as reflected in Article 42 of the Regulations Respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land annexed to the Fourth Hague Convention of 18 October 1907, territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army, and the occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.

The State of Israel raised a number of exceptions and objections,[9] but the Court found them unpersuasive. The Court ruled that territories had been occupied by the Israeli armed forces in 1967, during the conflict between Israel and Jordan, and that subsequent events in those territories, had done nothing to alter the situation. 'All these territories (including East Jerusalem) remain occupied territories and Israel has continued to have the status of occupying Power.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupied_territories


“Israel has a straightforward route to defending itself: end criminal actions in the occupied territories”, he said. Among other things, Chomsky hopes Israel will end the blockade on Gaza and accept offers by Arab neighbors to establish a Palestinian state on borders close to the Green Line. Concluding, he said a Israeli military victory in Gaza would leave Israel with an image as a “blood-stained monster.”

“Supporters of Israel are in reality supporters of its moral degeneration,” he said.

http://tech.mit.edu/V128/N63/chomskytalk.html

Thank you, America Rules. It`s been a long wait for someone to point out the difference between citizens and rabble. I likewise do not model myself after any individual, political party or earthly principality. I just like to twist radical lefty`s tail and laugh when he gets hysterical :D. Our adversery`s latest tantrum is posting images which blow up the thread pages, making it bothersome for people to read them because we now must scroll in order to read an entire line. Maybe he needs some pussy?


Although any radical lefty would deny it, what we are actually engaged in on this forum is a form of warfare; we just don`t use dead Americans or Canadians to sensationalize and stir up emotions. The fighting in Gaza is only a sliver of what`s been going on there since before I was born. The formation of the Haganah was a response to attacks against Jews in the British Mandate of Palestine (the original description of captured Ottoman Empire lands the Jews migrated to) on land they purchased from absentee Turkish land barons.
So, suddenly this mandated territory becomes vitally important to both Arabs and Persians? :D.

Yes, if Hezbollah attacks again, Israel will probably go back into Lebanon to finish wiping out hezbollah`s ability to wage war; the UN peacekeepers will have to fail first before that happens. There are 30,000 UN troops in Southern Lebanon and Hezzie doesn`t dare try anything outrageous. People post the most incredible BS here without thinking or remembering. If Hezbollah does do something stupid, do not be surprised to see the Lebanese Army help Israel snuff them. Even Arabs are weary of dimwitted terrorists trying to establish a corrupt Islamic theocracy on them.

As to DML? What more can you expect from a country that brought USA Celine Dion?

Attributed to DML by American Rules: "I hate all soldiers"

American Rules: "do you deny saying that?"

Yes.


"do I realy have to dig through your 17000 posts to dig that out or can you recognize your own sentiment?"

You're going to have to dig it out - I recognize it as the simplistic argument that you would prefer to argue against rather than the more nuanced "I hate all aggressive war" sentiment that I consistently provide.

This forum has been around for about ten years ... we know what "straw man" arguments are, which is why we all prefer you provide quotes for what you're arguing against, like I do 100% of the time.

"So, suddenly this mandated territory becomes vitally important to both Arabs and Persians?"

The place you are born is always important to you - no matter who you are.

You should look through the photos of all the Palestinians forced from their homes ... their land looks "vitally important" to them:

http://www.palestineremembered.com/OldNewPictures.html