WOW, Marc you got some stuff on your mind I see...
You have alot of your own theories based on stuff you have read I can tell... I have actually lived and seen alot of the stuff you are talking about... I think I can help fill in some gaps...
For starters... When I came to BC I awlays heard bad stuf about Natives,People are actually predjudice against Native Indians here!! It upsetted me cause these people have had a rough road thruout the years(basically they still have the vaseline on there ass).. But the longer I have been here,I have noticed what people have been talking about, I have yet to see a native Indian here "smile".. period.. either they ask me for money or they look sad all the time... I have actually gone out my way to try to entertain a few,just to see if I can make them smile... but nothing... I still have love for them tho,but some stereotypes are true..the majority of them are drug addicts,or alcoholics and live very unhappy lives...
Now as for blacks and rasicm...Marc let me say ...Whoa are you wrong... Racsim has gone away BIG time... From 10 yrs ago to now... I would say 180 degree turnaround..,but I guess you have to be in the states to realize it...
See I am white but I grew up around alot of blacks and alot of mexicans... and those people I can tell you alot about... See Blacks are some of the most rasict people you will ever meet,at least Stateside...Not here in BC BTW>> blacks r cool.
They hate white people,because they r raised too..There grandparents still have grudges from the old slave days and raise their kids telling stories about how it "used to be".. BTW blacks are HUGE boxing fans,especially old timers...and most teach there kids to box and fight at ages starting from since they can walk... but other than that the majority dont have much for morals,or understanding of family,loyalty or any positive rolemodels in there lives at all,other than basketball stars and rap artists...or "gangstas"

You can just imagine how many times I have been called honky,cracker,or white boy like it was my name... Most of the white people they seen were either drug addicts or cops...and in the inner city many blacks havent ever left a 10 sq. block radius in their whole lives.
Everday something bad happens either to you or somebody you know,so any chance of happiness or accomplishment you see... you take it,cause if you dont what else do you have to live for?,who cares if its legal... SO alot of blacks and people from inner city lives are very greedy,very fed up,have already seen more than the average person and live lives people like judges,politicians,or even you as this reader of this could never comprehend...or maybe think you do cause you read an article or seen a movie...but you dont... But then again 90% of the blacks that are in prison for crack or possesion..had the crack in their pocket..
intellegence hasnt even been considered yet..
Mexicans and most latinos are the most family ethic,most loyal,and some of the craziest people I have ever met...as for Border control and etc etc.. here in canada you cant understand,you have so much growth and new development here...in the states the amount of mexicans actually lowered our pay.. As americans we make less cause 2 mexicans would do the same job for the same pay.....
Well how is that unfair,you ask? Well this is the crazy part...these people will live 15 to a 1 bed apartment..and thats no joke..they usually car pool in a big van or pickup truck with 10 of them in the back. And what they do is they dont plan to stay in America to live the "good life",no they only come for a cpl years...send some money back home,and save enough to retire in a cpl years back in mexico...
But be an American or a Canadian and not live by a resort or some gated community in some outskirts of mexico...Mexico has there own border policy... its called "tell your people to send me money or you die"... Somehow it works for them...

So they come to america to exploit it not embrace it,they truly hate americans.. and blacks truly hate white people..
But there are exceptions to these people,and the people that dont jump on the "bandwagon" like the rest of them are actually very good people.. My best friend is black,and most of my friends growing up are mexican... and these people understand the way things are,and can look past the stereotypes and actually raise their kids with good morals,and teach them to be goal orientated..
But these people are few,people are fed up no matter what color you are. Things arent the way they are supposed to be,everybody sees it but doesnt know what to do about it.. So you act out in everyday situations,confront the problems you can "deal" with in a more aggressive upset manner... while always blaming people for this and that,but never taking blame yourself for adding to the negativity..... things arent ever gonna be good enough for some people,believe me..
As for prisons,, I can tell you are kinda nervous,Marc.. Good reason to be,tho..People in the US have no idea who you are.Marc you wouldnt get any "special" treatment from the inmates or the guards.. They could plaster your face all over CNN and tell the world they locked you up,and people in jail wont know or will forget.. Chances are tho they would send you to a fderal" country club" even after a doin a yr or so.. just apply for a transfer..
as for the treatment, I can testify to beatings.. I had my ear halfway ripped off by a guard,and also been beat senseless,just for askin for things such as a blanket since they had me sleepin on a concrete floor for 2 days and it was around 50F,for example.. Maced and had my head stomped on numerous times with steeltoed boots,and they love to hit you with those sticks too... and they dont really segregate you much neither,they will put you in a cell with just about anybody,unless you got some pull with a guard or sumtin...
Torture.... in many different ways but mostly with ignorance...
You do have a slight misunderstanding of the prison and crime problem tho Marc and hopefully I can help you shed some light on it,because its coming to canada..I can already see it...
Well to be straight to the point,,Its a money makin enterpise like any major company or organzation...The prison system makes way more money than you are considering...The most amount of people I think incarcerated right now,are probably .."driving without a licence".. and I am serious..I laughed when I heard here in BC that they will just tow your car,and even call u a taxi,if caught driving without a license..
better enjoy that while it lasts..lol..
Its different each state,but they have learned that people NEED to drive cars..The have built the cities and neghborhoods around cars not transit,so chances are if you take somebodies license,they are still gonna drive anyway, just to get to work..

This is the number one money maker I have seen,combined with DUI...They dont even fill up the "prisons" they are fillin up the county jails where they do holding and short sentences under a year,so they dont even fall into the "prison"category... and people are just takin plea bargains and paying fines,just to get out of jail and hopefully save their jobs..
A prison inmate depending on security level costs the state between 25-35k a yr... But it doesnt really cost the state anything,because every year right around july 1st,the state goes to the federal government and tells them how may inmates they have and the federal gov,then pays the state per inmate,dependin on secruity level..So the state corrections then gets X amount of dollars,to pay for guards,food,clothes,etc...
Now I have been to many different institutions,and everyone of them has an industry or some sort... Makes sense.inmates work to support themselves right?
make their own clothes,grow their own vegtables,build their own bed,and furniture.. nope Doesnt work that way...
One place I been too we built,probably 5-8000 dollar oak confrence tables,these were like 3 in thick .. and different high end desks and chairs... The warden didnt even have any of them they were so nice..
another place was a full blown slaughterhouse...inmates did everything,guards just watched.. You would think a prison like that the inmates ate good right? not a chance... all that meat was exported out at top dollar and they imported "free" shit they get from major food corporations,for tax right offs.. You know stuff that the expiration date is already due.. Yep thats what the slaughter guys ate after they killed tons of cows a day...
Another place was a Bakery? A bakery that made the best most delicious stuff we never got to eat.. the prisons baking goods came from china and tax free companies.. and all the prison made stuff was sold for top dollar to local bakers,companies,etc..et
Now if the state gets paid from the feds for providing for that states inmates,then where the hell does the money go that they save on food from tax free places...where does the profits go from the industries?
Sounds like somebody is a little bit too greedy,somewhere... But thats what america is about...uncle sam should have gotten his ass blown away a long time ago...
And whats crazy about all this,after they have made a crapload of money just on one single inmate..when he or she gets released into the world,and he tries to get a descent job to support his family and really try to do the "right" thing..he constantly gets smacked in the face with a background check and a drug test from his interviewer... and to a person fresh out of prison,with americas unemployment rate to top it off...your shit out of luck... especially when your sittin next to a guy at a temporary service,that is applying for the same warehouse postion you are,except he just came back from Iraq and still has the haircut to prove it,...you know your in deep shit...
How are you gonna support yourself?how could you support your family? they use the jails to circulate us...If you have a warrant in most places...they will come to your work to come get you..they will arrest you in front of your boss and co workers,in fact its the first place they look.. Is it because they are lazy?or maybe they want to embarass the person... I think its cause they know they are gonna get fired,and its a prepunishment so to speak... makes it hard to be able to keep the job and to be able afford a good lawyer. Its a way of breakin you before you even get locked up.. to me its the most stupidest thing you can do is to take a suspected criminal from his workplace,especially younger people who already work crumby jobs like McD's or BK.. because where are they gonna go from there? what are they gonna do tomorrow,when McD;s wont take them back and wont give a good reccomendation for the next job?
They are probably gonna sell drugs and rob just like I did...
and most people unlike myself have addictive personalities,and will probably end up usin their own drugs,become addicts and fall even deeper into the revolving circle..but this time for good.. I have seen almost every person I know and loved either go to jail,die,or become an addict...and watching people you love just give up on themselves is very depressing,but its a reality that is easy to follow,especially when you are without "hope".
Its a revolving violent cirlce...
America makes money off americans downfalls..
legalizing weed or other drugs will stop americans economy BIG TIME>.. Do u forget about the money seizures all over the country..? In most states now if u get caught with even a seed in your car,they can arrest you $$$$, have your car towed
$$$$,take any currency you have on your person for drug money confisication laws $$$$ and THEN when you get to court and take the 18 month probation they are gonna give you..and slap you with a 1000 dollar court fees $$$$,and a 2000 dollar probation costs $$$$,not too mention the drug tests they are gonna be administering,you gotta imagine they are makina profit off yes even those cups you piss in,because we pay for those too...$$$$... we r talking about many thousands of dollars you are helping support our economy just for smokin weed...
Now that doesnt even cover the BIG seizures of money and drugs they find and end up keeping...
America doesnt want to stop crime,are you crazy?... why else would a country that downs DUI's so much...and yet allows gas stations to sell single cans of beers,that are in coolers right next to the cash register? and to top it off,they even sell paper bags the perfect size just for a can..WTF... does this make sense to you?

Everybody thinks legalizing weed is gonna be the answer to all our prayers,as well mine..but the grass always looks greener on the other side.. Have you guys been listening to the news? we already have farmers that have stopped growing FOOD,to grow Bio fuels and more profitable crops...what do you think is gonna happen if they legalize industrial hemp? I can imagine "everybody" is gonna grow weed because of the many uses for it..but where does that leave our food? I can imagine Food prices will go up...
where does that leave other drugs?
I wanna see pres bush do a line,and see how he acts afterwards...I bet he will want more.. in fact I think its a disgrace that we have someone pres that we dont know even what his weaknesses are..he could be a dopefien,he just never tried it to know.. if he would have lived in my neighborhood chances are he would have done it... I trust people that can overlook there own selfish need and greed for a bigger picture,and some of these people have seen and used drugs and knew not to let it control them... Drugs,money,power these are all addictions...and more than likely people with addictive personalities will adapt to any of them in the right situation...
meaning a judge that went to Yale will more than likley like to gamble more than smoke crack...
and a guy living on the streets will more than likely smoke crack then gamble...
but what is the real difference in the two,Morals? where they live? No they are the same..they are both weak and let something control their feelings and actions...
more than likley that judge if he would have grown up on the streets he would have smoked crack,instead of gamble...
see addictions ..drugs or otherwise are in the mind set,and are even inherited down from parents to kids thru genes.. These people have something missing in them that keeps them from being happy,wether it be greed or whatever,but most people wish to have more and are never truly happy with what they have,, which is why people gamble...cause they want that one big jackpot,where they are can be the "man" for a nite.. just like crackheads chasing that one good "hit"... and even tho they spend days not getting it,,,they remember what it felt like,and that all that matters to them...Family,loyalty,self respect all go out the door,,just chasing that one more time...
How do we know that the people we r lookin upto,trusting with our lives...arent chasing somethng as well.. How do we know that these people actually have our best interest in mind,when there are so many out there?... How do we know that if president bush smoked crack,he wouldnt be begging on the streets? Why do we trust people that read about our lives in a newspaper and think they know whats goin on.?.. I am fed up with it to be honest...
I have been living and watchin these problems for many many years,and it almost sickens me for people to not have a clue what they are talking about and now all of a sudden they are fighting for the shit I have been gettin kicked in the face over my whole life... and try to misconstrue everything to fit there own motives and intentions...
Marc I am sorry to say brother,to me your not the prince of pot... Yuor basically the guy that sold rock at the corner to make a living.. yea your mad cause of the way they arrested you,I understand...
but there is a BIG difference between You and the rest of the world Like myself that you are supposedly fighting for...
For starters here in canada,you have many opportunities for work,or starting buisnesses...Shit they will give anybody a buisness loan it seems like here..It is boomin... SO for a person to see this,and not jump into the work industry means you wanted something more,.. Why else would a person sell seeds illegally when they could get a "real" job?... cause you thought you could get away with it.. Point blank
compare you to a 17 yr old kid sellin drugs right now on a the side of a corner in the inner city somewhere...the differnce is HE HAS NO CHOICE.. he sells crack to live,because he cant get a job probably and he needs to support himself and feel like a man... But you do things because it was easier for you...or convient to you from the law or otherwise.. hard work wasnt in your schedule..
In fact the actual fact that you made millions of dollars sellin seeds,puts you into the category of addictive personality,cause you were obviously taking advantage and being greedy...when you could have been more mellow about it to begin with...
I understand what your fighting for,the whole marijuana prohibition thing..but its kinda in your best interest too..
Posting that page about how Ron Paul is gonna free you and your 2 freinds just explains it... Canada will not benefit from americas legalization other then you.. and you posting that page just shows your intentions and how people can help you>>> kinda funny isnt it? how people should help you? didnt you sell the seeds that thousands of americans who are doin way more time over than is EVEN being considered for you??? but I guess your better than them,cause you made more money,or didnt grow up in da hood.. You are jeapordizing Rons campaign with your AD,wont it be great if we see that on CNN?...it would be basically kissin all those peoples hard earned,hope filled dollars goodbye that have supported him...But your right,,lets just hope they dont show that!! cause its worth the risk to you.. right Marc?
Its not about greed people ..its about love for eachother,its about teaching our kids morals and respect,teaching them the real right and wrong and showing them the way things really are and not sugar coat stuff.. We need to stand together for a real purpose, and thats freedom... Freedom from a controlling government... You know the reason the constitution was written!!!
the legalaztion of weed is just a small part of that !!!
I hope Ron Paul Wins for this reason!!!

and the guy that wrote that shit about those arabs gettin nukes...
Who really cares?? Not me and either should you...We have the most sophisticated anti missle attack weapoons known to man...
In fact we could be spending that cpl hundered million we spend everyday to keep soldiers in Iraq,to be help creating even better ones and supporting our allies with the same technology...

But then again we wouldnt even need them if if we werent stickin our noses in were they dont belong any god damn way...
Ron Paul is one of the ONLY people I have heard give actual reason for 9/11..
I have always kinda figured these people wouldnt commit suicide unless they felt very strongly about what they were doing..
and Ron let us know...He told us that they have been askin us for many years to remove our forces over there...They also have a gas pipeline running stright thru their country that involves us that they dont want there...
In my neighborhood you couldnt even step on our block unless you knew somebody... Nobody is gonna ask you many questions or listen to your pleas,,they are gonna rob you,and you would be lucky if you walk away with your life..and thats in america!!!
So with these people askin for years to please remove forces,and get the rest of your crap and get out of my neighborhood....I can relate almost... Does this make me a terrorist too..?
No I think these people will leave us alone if we elect somebody like Ron Paul that understands HUMANITY,and respect!!
I think the US will gain ALOT Of respect from everybody,because Rons ideas are way more Flat out,REALISTIC,and much much different then the bullshit we have been gettin dealt for the past half century..
War is gonna happen regardless,its been happening since the beginning of time... we cant play monkey in the middle..we need to worry about us,and in the future if something terrorist like this happens again...I dont think any of us would mind wiping a few of those countries off the face of the planet with a cpl bombs..
Sure we may lose alot of people somewhere maybe on our own turf again... But I am sure as a country we will recover with the right leadership...
there is always gonna be war...the point of fighting is for something better as a person or as a group... If we fight as a country internally and have so many conspiracies,etc.. the people are gonna be without cause,and especially hope...and you cant win wars without Hope and some sort of "cause"...
and according to your theries "Mccain" dude on this thread,If we continue the way we r,our country will end up tearing itself apart internally here,lose hope in eachother and our government and we will be more vulnerable than ever to our so called "enemies"...
and the reason Bush hasnt been assinated yet,is because the government isnt that mad at him yet... they are probably laughin at him,and playing him like a puppet..

I think that's another great thing about Ron Paul's candidacy is shifting the weight back to the states' Supreme Court because of the politicization of the Federal Supreme Court. I mean really, the Federal Government has a place but it's time to start reducing it's size and scope, not increasing it at the expense of our national security (due to internal strife).

"Americas prison crisis"..lol thanks for caring...Your a piece of work...Canada aint no better...Is Canada so perfect that you cant find anything to bitch about? I take it you have evrything in order up there which provides you with some additional time to "fix our problems" too?..Last time i lived in canada it was worse than here...prisons are filled to the brim(and the hepitisis infection rates are 75%!)..Canada recieved 600,000 in grant money to fight the hepititis/aids problem but guess what? the money is missing!..there are also lots of "bad neighborhoods..no jobs...cops are always harrasing and arressting pot smokers...your own government trying to extradite you...crime, no jobs, native americans are shunned and pushed aside....Your arrogance, along with David Malmo Levine is staggering...

"...Canada aint no better..."

According to the New York Times, EVERY country is better:

"Nationwide, the prison population hovers at almost 1.6 million, which surpasses all other countries for which there are reliable figures."


1/100 persons in prison in the US,

1/9 blacks age 20 - 34 and

1/36 adult Hispanics.

More details below.


From: prisonlaw@yahoogroups.com [mailto:prisonlaw@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Les Morley
Sent: March 10, 2008 9:25 AM
To: prisonlaw@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PLA] USA: Prison Nation

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March 10, 2008

Editorial

Prison Nation

After three decades of explosive growth, the nation's prison population has reached some grim milestones: More than 1 in 100 American adults are behind bars. One in nine black men, ages 20 to 34, are serving time, as are 1 in 36 adult Hispanic men.

Nationwide, the prison population hovers at almost 1.6 million, which surpasses all other countries for which there are reliable figures. The 50 states last year spent about $44 billion in tax dollars on corrections, up from nearly $11 billion in 1987. Vermont, Connecticut, Delaware, Michigan and Oregon devote as much money or more to corrections as they do to higher education.

These statistics, contained in a new report from the Pew Center on the States, point to a terrible waste of money and lives. They underscore the urgent challenge facing the federal government and cash-strapped states to reduce their overreliance on incarceration without sacrificing public safety. The key, as some states are learning, is getting smarter about distinguishing between violent criminals and dangerous repeat offenders, who
need a prison cell, and low-risk offenders, who can be handled with effective community supervision, electronic monitoring and mandatory drug treatment programs, combined in some cases with shorter sentences.

Persuading public officials to adopt a more rational, cost-effective approach to prison policy is a daunting prospect, however, not least because building and running jailhouses has become a major industry.

Criminal behavior partly explains the size of the prison population, but incarceration rates have continued to rise while crime rates have fallen. Any effort to reduce the prison population must consider the blunderbuss impact of get-tough sentencing laws adopted across the United States
beginning in the 1970's. Many Americans have come to believe, wrongly, that keeping an outsized chunk of the population locked up is essential for sustaining a historic crime drop since the 1990's.

In fact, the relationship between imprisonment and crime control is murky. Some portion of the decline is attributable to tough sentencing and release policies. But crime is also affected by things like economic trends and employment and drug-abuse rates. States that lagged behind the national average in rising incarceration rates during the 1990's actually experienced
a steeper decline in crime rates than states above the national average, according to the Sentencing Project, a nonprofit group.

A rising number of states are broadening their criminal sanctions with new options for low-risk offenders that are a lot cheaper than incarceration but still protect the public and hold offenders accountable. In New York, the crime rate has continued to drop despite efforts to reduce the number of nonviolent drug offenders in prison.

The Pew report spotlights policy changes in Texas and Kansas that have started to reduce their outsized prison populations and address recidivism by investing in ways to improve the success rates for community supervision, expanding treatment and diversion programs, and increasing use of sanctions other than prison for minor parole and probation violations. Recently, the
Supreme Court and the United States Sentencing Commission announced sensible changes in the application of harsh mandatory minimum drug sentences.

These are signs that the country may finally be waking up to the fiscal and moral costs of bulging prisons.

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"Is Canada so perfect that you cant find anything to bitch about?"

Does Canada have to be perfect before Canadians can point out the example set by the "leaders of the free world" who run the USA?

Actually, if you bothered to check (instead of constantly attempting to make it a matter of nationalism) we constantly attack our own government and police services - just look at the tazer thread in this forum if you don't believe me. Not everyone who hates turning the world into one big prison does so because they "hate America".

I think the need to dismiss every critique of US policy as "America hating" is a sort of mental illness suffered by the supporters of every autocratic regime. I'm sure the Iraqi's who liked Saddam would use the same retoric when people in Iran criticized their autocratic failed policies.

did this guy just say taser thread???
dude we have cops in the states shooting people regularly for things such as holdin a cell phone...
In fact it is such an accurance that they dont even show it much in the media cause unlike you canadians... We will give the police a run for their money... meanwhile tearing the shit out of our pwn neighborhoods...

I believe what the guy is sayin.. to be quite frank... is that in canada ..You dont have a fuckin clue what is goin on,or what the real problems are in the united states...

in fact with all your bitchin,you sound like a bunch of newspaper readin ,sittin at home all day, thinkin you know whats goin on the world ...sissies....

gonna read somethin in a paper.... and u know whats goin on??

I live in Canada... and to be quite honest...
I have found nothing but people without hope..
people that will stab eachother in the back ...
people that follow... "yes you try so hard to be like the US"...
people that have it so good,as in your economy,government.. but all you do is bitch,judge, and shut out eachother....
NOT TOO meniton ,you west coast folks, are some of the laziest people I have ever seen.. you work quality,craftmenship,and pricing and customer serive is INSANE>>>>
especially your whole we have the best weed gig...HAHHAAHA>... yea right...

it is rule of thumb here,the person who charges the most,knows the most and has the best stuff... uh huh

seems like being gullable is an epidemic along with,sympathy .... and flat out being a follower...

everybody tells somebody elses story as their own ,,etc..etc..

buncha know it alls....
you people are definelty adopting the east indian mentality here,and thats serious...

you have more east indians in surrey than I have seen on any indiana jones movie... you get pulled over for being white,nowadays in fact.. WTF

I actually got pulled over for not wearing a helmet as I rode a bicycle... are these guys serious..?

yea your right ...canada is better... maybe if you would actually go to the states,,,and then talk shit,I would hear you better...

meanwhile go ahead and check out this link... I find it amusing.. this is a little article comparin my hometowns murder rate to Iraq...

http://machiasprivateer.blogspot.com/2005/01/chicago-vs-iraq-murder-rates.html

damn I wish I grew up here in canada and got to read newpapers and watch cnn,,and judge and talk shit about the US....

that would be cool...

and my man did have a very good point.... AIDS... HOLY SHIT...
there are more tom hanks philidelphia looking people walkin around here then I have ever seen in my whole life...

prostitution here, seems like is almost excepted..as in almost everybody knows somebody that sells ass,and are friends with them..

or girls marrying out for money for citizenship... is very common here....

they actually have a non profit group here ,that tends to the hookers while they stand on the street... the other day I seen these 3 ladies pull up to a hooker and the whole time she had her thumb out while they were runnin around the car gettin various foods and pamphlets out for her.. nver puttin her thumb down once...

this is the type of stuff you can expect here in canada,..

shit that makes no sense at all...

in the states we like our hookers skinny...

anybody bother to read Kevin Marrons book?..lol..i doubt it

Its titled "The Slammer..Canadas prison crisis"...

Its only 4.99...

Victim of corruption.
(FLA)
(www.myspace.com/alwayspeppie)
Also honored member of The Stoner Army

Could the reason behind the overly represented black prison population have anything to do with the cultural differences? It seems as if blacks are generally less ashamed of having spent time incarcerated than non blacks.