You`re pushing toward a one world government. Not one of the issues surrounding global warming could ever be solved without full participation by all the Earth`s inhabitants.

I`d rather fort up on this side of the world, shrink the economy, and care for the WEST. We`re going to be up to our ears in shit if we bow to old European aristocratic style, and slaves if we bow to the Eastern barbarism such as happened lately in Miyanmar and Tibet.


Nope. I`ll take Western ways.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39KZ2afBtLU

soviet russia pet shop boys go west music video song trance techno electric mtv soccer worldcup world cup

"You`re pushing toward a one world government. Not one of the issues surrounding global warming could ever be solved without full participation by all the Earth`s inhabitants."

It's not a choice between "extreme climate change" and "extreme authoritarian global dictatorship" ... the third - and most obvious - option is to remove the corporate dictatorship that got us here in the first place and replace it with political and economic systems that are both ecologically sustainable and extremely democratic.

I have to agree with David on this. Great link, good to see people taking a holistic view of things and not just focusing on climate change.

Ben, you seem to me like you're pretty paranoid. All this one world government crap is driven by the same forces that have wreaked havoc on ecosystems, not the ones trying to protect them. It's "western ways"...whatever you mean by that...that got us to this point. You're being ignorant, generalizing and prejudice...something else that got us to this point. The "western way" was built off of the back "eastern ways"...there is no "western way" without the rest of the world to trade with and take from.

Excuse me? The Western democracies` technology is what will enable our portion of emissions to be lowered. Already, there are more high efficency power plants under construction. The United States is hiring wind turbine specialists from the Danes and Norwegians. Japan has done environmental miracles on their island nation. France is heavily invested in harnessing fusion reactions.

I think that without seperate and friendly competition amongst each other, the West would lose its creative edge.Nope. I believe the West will prevail. We`ll starve the globalists out of power. You must have commerce to finance research and technology, and the rest, besides the West just are not performing well enough to inherit any reins of authority.:D

Besides; no one yet has appeared as our great earthly savior to deliver us of all our problems. When that guy shows up, then maybe I`ll get bamboozled into thinking an entrenched Politburo is better than organized chaos.

"Besides; no one yet has appeared as our great earthly savior to deliver us of all our problems."

"If the real Jesus Christ were to stand up today
He'd be gunned down cold by the CIA"
- Armageddon Days are Here Again - The The

What will climate change do to our planet? - degree-by-degree guide
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This is our future - famous cities are submerged, a third of the world is desert, the rest struggling for food and fresh water. Richard Girling investigates the reality behind the science of climate change

Go to see full article http://www.timesonline.co.uk


RED ALERT

If global warming continues at the current rate, we could be facing extinction. So what exactly is going to happen as the Earth heats up? Here is a degree-by-degree guide

1c Increase

Ice-free sea absorbs more heat and accelerates global warming; fresh water lost from a third of the world's surface; low-lying coastlines flooded

"Most striking of all," says Lynas, "was seeing how people behaved once the veneer of civilisation had been torn away. Most victims were poor and black, left to fend for themselves as the police either joined in the looting or deserted the area. Four days into the crisis, survivors were packed into the city's Superdome, living next to overflowing toilets and rotting bodies as gangs of young men with guns seized the only food and water available. Perhaps the most memorable scene was a single military helicopter landing for just a few minutes, its crew flinging food parcels and water bottles out onto the ground before hurriedly taking off again as if from a war zone. In scenes more like a Third World refugee camp than an American urban centre, young men fought for the water as pregnant women and the elderly looked on with nothing. Don't blame them for behaving like this, I thought. It's what happens when people are desperate."


Chance of avoiding one degree of global warming: zero.

2c Increase

Europeans dying of heatstroke; forests ravaged by fire; stressed plants beginning to emit carbon rather than absorbing it; a third of all species face extinction

Not only coastal communities will suffer. As mountains lose their glaciers, so people will lose their water supplies. The entire Indian subcontinent will be fighting for survival. "As the glaciers disappear from all but the highest peaks, their runoff will cease to power the massive rivers that deliver vital freshwater to hundreds of millions. Water shortages and famine will be the result, destabilising the entire region. And this time the epicentre of the disaster won't be India, Nepal or Bangladesh, but nuclear-armed Pakistan."

Chance of avoiding two degrees of global warming: 93%, but only if emissions of greenhouse gases are reduced by 60% over the next 10 years

3c Increase

Carbon release from vegetation and soils speeds global warming; death of the Amazon rainforest; super-hurricanes hit coastal cities; starvation in Africa

As the land burns, so the sea will go on rising. Even by the most optimistic calculation, 80% of Arctic sea ice by now will be gone, and the rest will soon follow. New York will flood; the catastrophe that struck eastern England in 1953 will become an unremarkable regular event; and the map of the Netherlands will be torn up by the North Sea. Everywhere, starving people will be on the move - from Central America into Mexico and the US, and from Africa into Europe, where resurgent fascist parties will win votes by promising to keep them out.

Chance of avoiding three degrees of global warming: poor if the rise reaches two degrees and triggers carbon-cycle feedbacks from soils and plants.

4c Increase

Runaway thaw of permafrost makes global warming unstoppable; much of Britain made uninhabitable by severe flooding; Mediterranean region abandoned

One of the most dangerous of all feedbacks will now be kicking in - the runaway thaw of permafrost. Scientists believe at least 500 billion tonnes of carbon are waiting to be released from the Arctic ice, though none yet has put a figure on what it will add to global warming. One degree? Two? Three? The pointers are ominous.

Chance of avoiding four degrees of global warming: poor if the rise reaches three degrees and triggers a runaway thaw of permafrost.

5c Increase

Methane from ocean floor accelerates global warming; ice gone from both poles; humans migrate in search of food and try vainly to live like animals off the land

"Where no refuge is available," says Lynas, "civil war and a collapse into racial or communal conflict seems the likely outcome." Isolated survivalism, however, may be as impracticable as dialling for room service. "How many of us could really trap or kill enough game to feed a family? Even if large numbers of people did successfully manage to fan out into the countryside, wildlife populations would quickly dwindle under the pressure. Supporting a hunter-gatherer lifestyle takes 10 to 100 times the land per person that a settled agricultural community needs. A large-scale resort to survivalism would turn into a further disaster for biodiversity as hungry humans killed and ate anything that moved." Including, perhaps, each other. "Invaders," says Lynas, "do not take kindly to residents denying them food. History suggests that if a stockpile is discovered, the householder and his family may be tortured and killed. Look for comparison to the experience of present-day Somalia, Sudan or Burundi, where conflicts over scarce land and food are at the root of lingering tribal wars and state collapse."


Chance of avoiding five degrees of global warming: negligible if the rise reaches four degrees and releases trapped methane from the sea bed.

6c Increase

Life on Earth ends with apocalyptic storms, flash floods, hydrogen sulphide gas and methane fireballs racing across the globe with the power of atomic bombs; only fungi survive

"First, a small disturbance drives a gas-saturated parcel of water upwards. As it rises, bubbles begin to appear, as dissolved gas fizzles out with reducing pressure - just as a bottle of lemonade overflows if the top is taken off too quickly. These bubbles make the parcel of water still more buoyant, accelerating its rise through the water. As it surges upwards, reaching explosive force, it drags surrounding water ?up with it. At the surface, water is shot hundreds of metres into the air as the released gas blasts into the atmosphere. Shockwaves propagate outwards in all directions, triggering more eruptions nearby."

The eruption is more than just another positive feedback in the quickening process of global warming. Unlike CO², methane is flammable. "Even in air-methane concentrations as low as 5%," says Lynas, "the mixture could ignite from lightning or some other spark and send fireballs tearing across the sky." The effect would be much like that of the fuel-air explosives used by the US and Russian armies - so-called "vacuum bombs" that ignite fuel droplets above a target. According to the CIA, "Those near the ignition point are obliterated. Those at the fringes are likely to suffer many internal injuries, including burst eardrums, severe concussion, ruptured lungs and internal organs, and possibly blindness." Such tactical weapons, however, are squibs when set against methane-air clouds from oceanic eruptions. Scientists calculate that they could "destroy terrestrial life almost entirely" (251m years ago, only one large land animal, the pig-like lystrosaurus, survived).

It has been estimated that a large eruption in future could release energy equivalent to 108 megatonnes of TNT - 100,000 times more than the world's entire stockpile of nuclear weapons. Not even Lynas, for all his scientific propriety, can avoid the Hollywood ending. "It is not too difficult to imagine the ultimate nightmare, with oceanic methane eruptions near large population centres wiping out billions of people - perhaps in days. Imagine a 'fuel-air explosive' fireball racing towards a city - London, say, or Tokyo - the blast wave spreading out from the explosive centre with the speed and force of an atomic bomb.

Buildings are flattened, people are incinerated where they stand, or left blind and deaf by the force of the explosion. Mix Hiroshima with post-Katrina New Orleans to get some idea of what such a catastrophe might look like: burnt survivors battling over food, wandering far and wide from empty cities."

Chance of avoiding six degrees of global warming: zero if the rise passes five degrees, by which time all feedbacks will be running out of control

Go to see full article http://www.timesonline.co.uk

Six Degrees: Our Future on a Hotter Planet, by Mark Lynas, is published on March 19 by HarperCollins

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Manure: In the 16th and 17th centuries, everything had to be transported

by ship and it was also before commercial fertilizer's invention, so large shipments

of manure were common.

cid:2.558979619@web30305.mail.mud.yahoo.comIt was shipped dry,

because in dry form it weighed a lot less than

when wet, but once water (at sea) hit it, it not only

became heavier, but the process of fermentation

began again, of which a by- product is methane gas.

As the stuff was stored below decks in bundles you

can see what could (and did) happen.

Methane began to build up below decks and the first

time someone came below at night with a lantern,

BOOOOM!

cid:3.558979619@web30305.mail.mud.yahoo.com Several ships were destroyed in this manner

before it was determined just what was happening.

After that, the bundles of manure were always stamped

with the term 'Ship High In Transit' on them, which

meant for the sailors to stow it high enough off the

lower decks so that any water that came into the hold

would not touch this volatile cargo and start the

production of methane.

cid:4.558979619@web30305.mail.mud.yahoo.com Thus evolved the term ' S.H.I.T ' ,

(Ship High In Transport) which has come down

through the centuries and is in use to this very day.

You probably did not know the true history of this

word.




Methane Burps: Ticking Time Bomb

By John Atcheson

The Arctic Council's recent report on the effects of global warming in the far north paints a grim picture: global floods, extinction of polar bears and other marine mammals, collapsed fisheries. But it ignored a ticking time bomb buried in the Arctic tundra.

There are enormous quantities of naturally occurring greenhouse gasses trapped in ice-like structures in the cold northern muds and at the bottom of the seas. These ices, called clathrates, contain 3,000 times as much methane as is in the atmosphere. Methane is more than 20 times as strong a greenhouse gas as carbon dioxide.

Now here's the scary part. A temperature increase of merely a few degrees would cause these gases to volatilize and "burp" into the atmosphere, which would further raise temperatures, which would release yet more methane, heating the Earth and seas further, and so on. There's 400 gigatons of methane locked in the frozen arctic tundra-enough to start this chain reaction-and the kind of warming the Arctic Council predicts is sufficient to melt the clathrates and release these greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.

Once triggered, this cycle could result in runaway global warming the likes of which even the most pessimistic doomsayers aren't talking about.

An apocalyptic fantasy concocted by hysterical environmentalists? Unfortunately, no. Strong geologic evidence suggests something similar has happened at least twice before.

The most recent of these catastrophes occurred about 55 million years ago in what geologists call the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM), when methane burps caused rapid warming and massive die-offs, disrupting the climate for more than 100,000 years.

The granddaddy of these catastrophes occurred 251 million years ago, at the end of the Permian period, when a series of methane burps came close to wiping out all life on Earth.

More than 94 percent of the marine species present in the fossil record disappeared suddenly as oxygen levels plummeted and life teetered on the verge of extinction. Over the ensuing 500,000 years, a few species struggled to gain a foothold in the hostile environment. It took 20 million to 30 million years for even rudimentary coral reefs to re-establish themselves and for forests to regrow. In some areas, it took more than 100 million years for ecosystems to reach their former healthy diversity.

Geologist Michael J. Benton lays out the scientific evidence for this epochal tragedy in a recent book, When Life Nearly Died: The Greatest Mass Extinction of All Time. As with the PETM, greenhouse gases, mostly carbon dioxide from increased volcanic activity, warmed the earth and seas enough to release massive amounts of methane from these sensitive clathrates, setting off a runaway greenhouse effect.

The cause of all this havoc?

In both cases, a temperature increase of about 10.8 degrees Fahrenheit, about the upper range for the average global increase today's models predict can be expected from burning fossil fuels by 2100. But these models could be the tail wagging the dog since they don't add in the effect of burps from warming gas hydrates. Worse, as the Arctic Council found, the highest temperature increases from human greenhouse gas emissions will occur in the arctic regions-an area rich in these unstable clathrates.

If we trigger this runaway release of methane, there's no turning back. No do-overs. Once it starts, it's likely to play out all the way.

Humans appear to be capable of emitting carbon dioxide in quantities comparable to the volcanic activity that started these chain reactions. According to the US. Geological Survey, burning fossil fuels releases more than 150 times the amount of carbon dioxide emitted by volcanoes-the equivalent of nearly 17,000 additional volcanoes the size of Hawaii's Kilauea.

And that is the time bomb the Arctic Council ignored.

How likely is it that humans will cause methane burps by burning fossil fuels? No one knows. But it is somewhere between possible and likely at this point, and it becomes more likely with each passing year that we fail to act.

So forget rising sea levels, melting ice caps, more intense storms, more floods, destruction of habitats and the extinction of polar bears. Forget warnings that global warming might turn some of the world's major agricultural areas into deserts and increase the range of tropical diseases, even though this is the stuff we're pretty sure will happen.

Instead, let's just get with the Bush administration's policy of pre-emption. We can't afford to have the first sign of a failed energy policy be the mass extinction of life on Earth. We have to act now.

John Atcheson, a geologist, has held a variety of policy positions in several federal government agencies.

Copyright 2004 Baltimore Sun
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Generally I dont enjoy speaking on this topic, mainly because there are so very many people who pick a point of view, (most times very quickly without any thought on the matter) and stick with it unwaveringly, ignoring an information that may come to them, that is against their opinion. Those same people, become infuriated when another disagrees with them, and accuse them of ignoring the facts..


The only FACT in the climate change issue is that our planet as been around for billions of years, constantly undergoing massive, violent and amazingly distructive changes.

We've been around for miniscule fraction of this time, and have only been recording a few thousand years of it.. for the first 3/4 of that time, we looked to our religious leaders for answers to some of the catastrophies our mother Earth has thrown our way.. and those answers have been in short.. "God did it.."

We really only have about 100years or so experience in the prediction of our climate, and the majority of that has been spend learning to forcast our day to day weather, which is rarely correct. So how then, can we expect our scientists to beable to tell us now, with certainty, our mother Earth is warming, and not mention that is all our fault?

We like to look up to our scientists and community leaders for answers because we percieve them as more intelligent than ourselve, which in some respects is true.

But.. I have read countless reports stating things both ways over the years and I have to say.. Im a bit disguested with the Global warming side of the argument, only because atLEAST 85-90% of the information i've come across, deal with a "scientist" putting numbers into a computer, and letting it tell him whats going to happen..

The number 1 problem I have with computer models is simply that.. they're computer models. They're based on information we've been collecting over the last century.. which anyone with basic statistcal knowledge SHOULD recognise that is simply not enough comparison data to make a definate prediction where our current warming trend is leading us.. and not to beat the proverbial dead horse, but we cant ignore the fact that 30 years ago we were supposedly heading into an ice age.

The new ice age theory came from data, scientists collected by traveling the earth, and doing global geological surveys, and getting data past climatic data from the place where it counts the most.. OUR MOTHER EARTH! The patterns that were uncovered suggested, (and still do) that we were far over due for atleast another mini-iceage.. (which recorded history tells us, we HAVE, had during the course of 'modern' human history (within the last 4000 years).

My opinions on this subject are exactly that.. MY OWN.. I've formed my opinions not by what my favorite movie stars or my choice polictions have told me because frankly, I have a hard time trusting a man with enough money to keep himself comfortable during a castostrophic event.. That person would have simply too little motivation to keep themselves honest in the event they were offered a large sum of money from an industrial or environmental group to say one thing or the other.

And yes, I do consider the environmental movement a special interest group now because it has been infiltrated by so many anti-capitalist and marksist bastards after their own agendas.. I sincerely wish the worst fates on those who would use those who fight to protect and heal our mother, as pawns for their own ends.

I said all that to say this; While we have come far, both technologically and intellectually over the last century, I do not believe we have the knowledge or the technology to say with certainty, we are even experienceing a major climate change event, let alone determine the cause of such an event.

I DO believe we experienced a slight bit of warming, but NO CREDIBLE data (reports not filled with rhetoric and/or bald faced lies) has been presented to me to suggest we had ANY warming in the last decade.. infact, the rock solid date I HAVE come across has suggested a slight cool over the last 10 years.

Our mother Earth is very powerful and quite UNPREDICTABLE.. and I think we can find a better excuse to clean her up and KEEP her clean, than this Global Warming theory. Personally I did buy into it at first, but after almost 8 years of personally conducted research and listening to the arguments from both sides, im more inclined to believe the entire thing was cooked up by environmental extremests and left wing hacks to scare us into doing what we SHOULD be doing in the first place. And that is keeping our Mother a healthy and prosperous place for our children to inherit.

Thanks for the link Dave, Excellent video.
If you can find a job locally, you don't need a car.
I have saved tens of thousands of dollars in NOT owning a car in 6 years.

I'm not too sure if this is accurate. The earth is constantly undergoing changes...however...to call them "massive, violent and amazingly destructive" is misleading. Geological time is amazingly slow, our sense of time as humans cannot compare with the geological sense of time. Mountains take hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of years to form/fall. I also don't see how these facts negate the effects human have on the environment.



Well we actually have a hell of a lot more information regarding past climates. There are many ways in which earth's history can be studied.



Well you obviously don't have much of a grasp on stats. Nothing in Stats is definite...ever. No one claims their computer models are definite either. Again, we have much more "data" than you presume. They are based on info we've been collecting for the past 100 years...but some of that info pertains to the climate over the past 100,000 years.

And why can't we ignore the fact that a mini ice age was predicted? It clouds the argument of whether or not we are effecting the climate. And couldn't one argue that because we already made that mistake we've hopefully learned from it this time?



Huh?

"The last glacial period was the most recent glacial period within the current ice age, occurring in the Pleistocene epoch. It began about 110,000 years ago and ended between 10,000 and 15,000 BP."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_glaciation



You obviously don't live in the Arctic do ya? You're joking about the lack of warming over the last decade right? Any links to this "rock solid" data?

I agree with you if you can find a job locally.

There are a lot of jobs that can be done at home or garage.

Some of them are involving: machining,telephone work and building electronic sub assy's. etc.

The big thing is getting the present mind set that the workers need to be in one place and cannot be trusted.

I do all my repair work at home ( pro sound and lighting equipment)

I do have to drive from time to time but keep it to a minimum.

My 2 Watts