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#1416886 - 05/27/08 09:29 PM Re: DWC, Bubblin'Buckets,Whats Needed And How To * [Re: whitetrash6]
That KolledgeKid Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 14
Thanks for the reply wtc, it's appreciated.

Just a few more questions regarding the set up and I think I'll be good to go.

1. arcinNsparkin or others, is the more than one 1 plant per enclosure better suited for the veggie stage and the ideal set up for the flowering stage would be to be a container per plant? I'll be growing the same strain if that matters.

2. arcinNsparkin that picture you posted first of the full grown bubbleberry, is that just one plant in there or are there two? How big is that container and what size air stone did you use? I have an idea of what parts I need and such but the only thing I'm having trouble with is understanding how big of a reservior I need if I'm growing this many plants, the size of water pump needed, and so forth.

3. General curiosity. What would you all think the maximum number of plants I can flower in a Rubbermaid container would be? Take a 20 gallon reservoir for example. I know you can make 6 holes but I'd like to think that 6 fully grown plants would be way too close to each other. Am I right on this? Would 4 plants (AK47) in a 20 gallon reservoir be more ideal?

4. Last question. What do you do about clones? Do you still use a rockwool cube with a humidity dome to promote root growth and when the roots start to develop you just place it in the DWC set up?

Sorry for all the questions, I tend to over think things a lot and usually won't undertake something unless I know everything about it.

Thanks in advance for any help!


Edited by That KolledgeKid (05/27/08 09:30 PM)

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#1417067 - 05/28/08 05:48 PM Re: DWC, Bubblin'Buckets,Whats Needed And How To [Re: That KolledgeKid]
wtc Offline
Member
**

Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: musicville
Like I said, I would grow all plants in their own buckets, if I had the room.

Most used buckets are 5 gallon and 2.5 gallon.
People use all size rubbermaids.

I use 5 gallon buckets with two 4 inch air stones.(1 plant)
I also use a 5 gallon rubbermaid with a 12 inch air stone. (clones)
I use a 2.5 gallon Tupperware container that I use when I grow from seed with a 12 inch airstone.
You want bubbles to reach all your plants.
So now I have some plants in that 2.5 gallon Tupperware, that I started from seed. The roots now have grown thru the rockwool.
So the rockwool is no longer touching the water,just the roots are in the water.Before the root mass gets too big I will take them out of that 2.5.

I use the 5 gallon rubbermaid to flower clones.
I use a 5 gallon bucket to veg a plant for 8 weeks, then train
and tie down and flower for 8 to 10 weeks.

I am just getting back in action. I had to halt my hobby for a few years. So I am growing some plants, sexing and looking for a mother so I can get back to my scrog with clones. I use a pump for a fish tank that says it is good for up to 20 gallons.
Its good for what I use it for. Anything bigger than 5 gallons you would need something more I am sure. Its a Tetra Tec AP80

As far as clones go I use the round rockwool.
I do use a dome, just those cheap plastic ones. I keep the rock wool moist and I mist with a spray bottle.As soon as I see roots I put them in my 2.5 Tupperware until I get enough roots growing.
I have a small operation going.Always have. I do not have the answers for anything larger.
_________________________
So many roads, so much at stake
So many dead ends, I'm at the edge of the lake
Sometimes I wonder what it's gonna take
To find dignity

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#1417131 - 05/29/08 02:00 AM Re: DWC, Bubblin'Buckets,Whats Needed And How To [Re: wtc]
That KolledgeKid Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 14
Thank you very much wtc, specs like those are exactly what I've been looking for.

Alright, so lets say you want to go from seed to plant. You first germinate the seed by whatever method you use. Then you place that sprouted seed into some rockwool cubes. Then when they are big enough, you place them in a DWC2.5 gallon tupperware. Would you have any pictures of this? I haven't seen a picture of one being used but it sounds perfect for plants that are of that height. Did you simply drill holes into it and place net pots inside? If so, what size net pots did you use?

Then once those are big enough, you stick those in individual 5 gallon buckets correct? And it also sounds like you use the same set up for the flowering room.

So all in all, how many 5 gallon buckets do you use for each stage? And do you use 1 pump per container or do you use 1 pump for more than 1 DWC 5 gallon container?

Sorry for all the questions man, I hope you don't mind. It just sounds like your set up is exactly what I'm looking to with.

Thanks again!

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#1417166 - 05/29/08 08:27 AM Re: DWC, Bubblin'Buckets,Whats Needed And How To [Re: That KolledgeKid]
wtc Offline
Member
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Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: musicville
 Quote:
Did you simply drill holes into it and place net pots inside? If so, what size net pots did you use?


I cut squares out of the top and place the square rockwell in the squares. Its not deep enough for net pots.
I use 5 inch net pots for 5 gallon buckets.
3 inch for 5 gallon rubbermaid.

 Quote:
Then once those are big enough, you stick those in individual 5 gallon buckets correct? And it also sounds like you use the same set up for the flowering room


Thats how you can do it.You can use 2.5 gallon buckets if you want. If you can fit more plants in that way.
.

 Quote:
And do you use 1 pump per container or do you use 1 pump for more than 1 DWC 5 gallon container?


I have only grown 1, 5 gallon bucket at a time.Thats all the room I have. I use 1 pump. 1 small fish pump per bucket. I think it would be easier for you.You just repeat the process after you make 1 bucket. I flower clones in that 5 gallon rubbermaid.(1 pump)

The whole idea is to have the roots in water. The airstones create bubbles for oxygen for the roots thats it.

Alot of people grow 2 to 4 plants in 2.5 or 5 gallons buckets under 400 hps.

I grow clones scrog style with a 250 mhs then I switch to 250 hps. 4 clones bing bang boom.My top chamber has 6 more clones under T5's, that are rooting as my bottom chamber is flowering.
I pick my best 3 or 4 and start again.

http://www.cannabisculture.com/forums/sh...o=&fpart=1&vc=1

Read those both again and then dive in.

http://forums.cannabisculture.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=579478#Post579478
Scroggin with 6 is what I do.

The best advice I can give you is keep it simple.
buckets pump airstone net pot and plant your a grower.
You need a ph meter and a ppm metet.Do not try to grow hydro with out those. Read the thread we are in. It does not get explained any better, then you learn and adjust to your grow.Its time to get your hands wet. Good luck. I will help you along the way if you need help so will plenty of others. Just show that you are trying.Not looking for someone to do all the work for you.
KEEP IT SIMPLE, KEEP IT SIMPLE! Oh ph up and down. mostly down
_________________________
So many roads, so much at stake
So many dead ends, I'm at the edge of the lake
Sometimes I wonder what it's gonna take
To find dignity

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#1418161 - 06/03/08 07:47 AM Re: DWC, Bubblin'Buckets,Whats Needed And How To [Re: wtc]
arc Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/10/08
Posts: 257
Loc: Lake Tahoe
I hope I didn't miss this question somewhere......Question: Do you still keep the water level 1" below the net pot even when your root mass is the size of a volleyball and sits on the bottom of the bucket?
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#1418170 - 06/03/08 08:44 AM Re: DWC, Bubblin'Buckets,Whats Needed And How To [Re: arc]
wtc Offline
Member
**

Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: musicville
Yes, It really is not that important 1 inch, 2. You try to keep it a inch or two. Just make sure you do not run out of water.When the root mass gets big it sucks up alot of water. You want to fill it to a inch below. Then put back the same amount of straight water back in with what you started with.Before you fert again.

In other words 5 gallons of water and fert, then you add straight water as needed up to 5 gallons then start again. You are not going to always be a inch under unless you sit there all day and watch.
_________________________
So many roads, so much at stake
So many dead ends, I'm at the edge of the lake
Sometimes I wonder what it's gonna take
To find dignity

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#1428766 - 07/21/08 09:20 AM Re: DWC, Bubblin'Buckets,Whats Needed And How To [Re: wtc]
Earl Offline

Pot Head
****

Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 3714
Loc: Synthetic farm

DWC is prone to Root Rot,
always due to low DO*

Altitude and Salinity play an important role
in how much DO a solution can carry.

If you reduce your nute loads,
your solution can carry more DO.

If you live in Denver,
you may have a problem indoor growing
with any temps above 65ºf

If you check out Roseypanties experiment,
you will see he had much better result
using a reduced nute load.

There were two positive effects on the plants,
that were grown using the reduced nute load.

The first good thing that happened was,
his DO increased,
due to the reduced salinity,
of his nutrient solution.

Second, osmotic pressure was reduced in the rhyzome,
allowing the plant to take in more H2o
and thus grow faster.

What does this second statement really mean?

Take your hand,
and leave it in salt water for an hour.

What happens?

Your skin wrinkles,... why?

Because the salt
has caused the osmotic pressure
on the outdside of your skin
to be higher than the pressure inside your skin,
and as the water in your hand
is sucked out through your skin,
your hand actually shrinks
from the loss of fluid
and the skin becomes loose
and wrinkled.

It is harder for your plant
to uptake water and nutrients
when you use high nute loads,
because the salt creates negative osmotic pressure (hypertonicity)
against the semipermeable membrane
of the root cell walls.

Here is the Wiki "scientific answer".

Osmotic pressure is the hydrostatic pressure
produced by a solution
in a space divided by a semipermeable membrane (your roots)
due to a differential in the concentrations of solute.

Osmoregulation is the homeostasis mechanism of an organism
to reach balance in osmotic pressure.

Osmotic potential is the opposite of water potential
with the former meaning
the degree to which a solvent (usually water)
would want to stay in a liquid
and not pass through the membrane.

Hypertonicity is a solution that causes cells to shrink.

It may or may not have a higher osmotic pressure than the cell interior
since the rate of water entry will depend upon the permeability of the cell membrane.

Hypotonicity is a solution that causes cells to swell.

It may or may not have a lower osmotic pressure than the cell interior,
since the rate of water entry will depend upon the permeability of the cell membrane.

Isotonic is a solution that produces no change in cell volume.
(this is what you want your nute solution to be)

When a biological cell is in a hypotonic environment,
the cell interior accumulates water,
water flows across the cell membrane into the cell,
causing it to expand.

In plant cells,
the cell wall restricts the expansion,
resulting in pressure on the cell wall
from within called turgor pressure.

(Swollen cells,
like swollen ankles or hands,
are not as productive.)

If you are good at math,
and want to get your nute solution perfect,
the osmotic pressure of a dilute solution
can be calculated using this formula

whereas
i = the Van t Hoff factor
M = the molarity
R = the gas constant, where R = 0.08206 L · atm · mol-1 · K-1
T = the thermodynamic temperature (formerly called absolute temperature)

Note: the similarity of the above formula to the ideal gas law
and also that osmotic pressure is not dependent on particle charge.
This equation was derived by van 't Hoff.

Now doing this calculation would be nice
if there are any college math majors out there,
but I use this chart,
and it has worked well for me.


_____________________% of Nute Load________________

As you can see, 50-75% is very adequate,
and it has been my personal experience,
that I have improved yields
and better taste,
when I use the lower end of "Sufficient",
on that chart.

(*Dissolved Oxygen)
.

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#1434382 - 08/12/08 07:34 PM Re: DWC, Bubblin'Buckets,Whats Needed And How To [Re: Earl]
g90man Offline
Enthusiast
*

Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 225
Loc: USA
WOW! What a post!
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Casual user

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#1450090 - 09/23/08 04:31 PM Re: DWC, Bubblin'Buckets,Whats Needed And How To [Re: Earl]
Grapes183 Offline
Journeyman
**

Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 59
how would i know the nute load? I'm confused..
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#1456816 - 10/14/08 09:55 AM Is this normal for PBP roots?
IDotBlunt2 Offline
Stoner
*

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 487
Using a mild PBP solution, my roots seem to accumulate this molasses like stuff all over. I have included a picture, whatever it is it cleans right off, then takes all of 12 hours to be looking like this again.

First time organic for me, I checked the show your roots thread and I haven't seen this. PH is good, solution is very mild, let me know if this isn't normal, I'll go and get chemical ferts right away as I am tired of fighting.

DB


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