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#1307858 - 05/14/07 03:59 AM
Re: Jesus Loves Potheads Too!
[Re: skitzo420]
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Member
Registered: 01/04/07
Posts: 177
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Quote:
druid if talking reason and logic to them worked they wouldnt be this far gone already....but i love how well you can articulate yourself...i can do that when im conversing with someone like you, someone who agrees and doesnt say just stupefying things, but when im actually debating a believer i get so flabbergasted by their "reasons" and arguments that it basically puts me in defense mode and i dont come off as articulate therefore giving myself less credit in the argument....meh, we all have flaws lol
I know what you mean Skitzo the problem with believers per se is that there belief becomes so wielded to there psychological sense of self they are unable to let go of it in order to view it impartially.For many their belief is the only thing that makes the world livable for them which is a great shame.You hear many say that "I couldn't live without my faith, life would be empty and pointless" to me this a great tragedy
That is why it is interesting to ask the question WHY do you believe.
They then may come up with say...well the world is so wonderous and unfathomable (of course it is life is a wonderous and unfathomable thing but I don't need to invent a God to appreciate it) that surely an omnipotent being must have made it.No proof really its just an hypothesis if that was all it was then I would have no problem
I could probably and I say probably live with that but then they start to ascribe there culturally accepted characteristics to this invented GOd such as God doesn't like gays or other people believing in another made up God or you must do this or that, or invent heaven and hell etc and the whole mischief just mushrooms.
From that one supposition a "God" must have created the world we as humans have caused carnage,wars,torture,destroyed indiginous cultures,ostracised minorities or anybody who didn't believe, oppressed whole races and genders.It beggers my belief that we don't just drop this whole belief thing.Come on we have tried it for millenia and it doesn't work isn't it time to try something else???
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#1307862 - 05/14/07 05:31 AM
Re: Jesus Loves Potheads Too!
[Re: divil]
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Veteran
Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1216
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Quote:
No disrespect skitzo but it is you who seems to be blinded with your faith,you are the one who see's nothing but what you believe yet you think it's the belief in a God that is blinding,who are you or me to say for 100per cent that a certain religion's God doesn't exsist.
he's no different than any other fanatic, be they of religious persuasion or otherwise. the part that bothers me the most is that (again, like most other fanatics) he seems to think that its his business what other people think.
if someone chooses to believe in god, what right does he have to mock them for it? NONE. how does my PERSONAL belief system impact his life? IT DOESN'T.
I'd wager he needs to mind his own goddamn business,and start taking some of his own advice ...
krac
ps - since the question might get posed i'm just going to come out and say it. i, personally, do not believe in god. however, i am quite happily either an "agnostic" or a "secular humanist" depending on my mood on any given day. look it up ...
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#1307863 - 05/14/07 08:35 AM
Re: Jesus Loves Potheads Too!
[Re: kractor]
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Member
Registered: 01/04/07
Posts: 177
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Quote:
if someone chooses to believe in god, what right does he have to mock them for it? NONE.
Noone should mock you for your belief our shared humanity demands we respect each other but I reserve the right to question it's validity.and whether it serves humanity or has the seeds of its destruction
Quote:
how does my PERSONAL belief system impact his life? IT DOESN'T.
If that personal belief system had a God in it then
Tell that to the 100,000's of indiginous people of South america tortured, crucified (sic I suppose if it was good enough for Jesus eh??) and stamped out by the Christian Conquistadors ,tell that to the millions killed in the Inquisition tell that to the innocents killed by Islamist terrorists I could go on and on how peoples beliefs have caused deaths and destruction.How the catholic church was in collusion with the Nazi's etc etc
And please don't come out with it's not the God I believe in that did this.Any believer/religion is only a threat to it's belief away from killing someone, history shows this time and time again.
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#1307864 - 05/14/07 08:54 AM
Re: Jesus Loves Potheads Too!
[Re: kractor]
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Ganja God
Registered: 06/21/00
Posts: 7136
Loc: Vancouver, BC
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Quote:
Quote:
No disrespect skitzo but it is you who seems to be blinded with your faith,you are the one who see's nothing but what you believe yet you think it's the belief in a God that is blinding,who are you or me to say for 100per cent that a certain religion's God doesn't exsist.
he's no different than any other fanatic, be they of religious persuasion or otherwise. the part that bothers me the most is that (again, like most other fanatics) he seems to think that its his business what other people think.
if someone chooses to believe in god, what right does he have to mock them for it? NONE. how does my PERSONAL belief system impact his life? IT DOESN'T.
I'd wager he needs to mind his own goddamn business,and start taking some of his own advice ...
krac
ps - since the question might get posed i'm just going to come out and say it. i, personally, do not believe in god. however, i am quite happily either an "agnostic" or a "secular humanist" depending on my mood on any given day. look it up ...
The problem I have with what you are saying is that Christian religious fanatics in both the US and Canada, swung the vote and push their religious moralism on the rest of us (such as pot laws, anti-abortion etc). Likewise in the Mid-East with Islamic extremist and Zionists, or in India with Hindu Caste proponents...
These superstitious individuals push their dogma in all of our faces. This needs to be dealt with common sense... Just as the witch burnings stopped with the Age of Reason, so to can the Modern Crusades be explained away with a good anthropological understanding of the development of religion itself...
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#1307865 - 05/14/07 11:08 AM
Re: Jesus Loves Potheads Too!
[Re: druidude]
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Veteran
Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1216
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Quote:
I reserve the right to question it's validity.and whether it serves humanity or has the seeds of its destruction
logical questioning is one thing ... spewing contempt and insults is something altogether different. one has a measure of respect attached to it while the other serves no practical purpose ...
Quote:
If that personal belief system had a God in it then
Tell that to the 100,000's of indiginous people of South america tortured, crucified (sic I suppose if it was good enough for Jesus eh??) and stamped out by the Christian Conquistadors ,tell that to the millions killed in the Inquisition tell that to the innocents killed by Islamist terrorists I could go on and on how peoples beliefs have caused deaths and destruction.How the catholic church was in collusion with the Nazi's etc etc
so you blame the many for the actions of the few? the vast majority of people who believe in some higher power are for the most part peaceful, respectful people. if you choose to paint all people who believe in "god" with the same brush, I'm not inclined to try and change your mind ... that's the whole point, people have the right to believe what they wish. the actions of the people you mention above are no doubt deplorable and i am in no way defending them; but neither do i think you can blame their atrocities solely on the fact that they believe in a higher power.
following that logic i could say that all people who believe in science should be insulted and ridiculed because of the horrors that science has brought upon mankind.
Quote:
And please don't come out with it's not the God I believe in that did this.
did you even READ the closing of my post where i clearly indicate that i do NOT believe in god? the part where i identify myself as agnostic / secular humanist? i guess not ...
Quote:
Any believer/religion is only a threat to it's belief away from killing someone, history shows this time and time again.
and any follower of science is in exactly the same position ... i fail to see the difference between the two. one side calls it "god", the other side might call it "biology" or "chemistry" ... same shit, different pile if you ask me ...
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#1307866 - 05/14/07 11:13 AM
Re: Jesus Loves Potheads Too!
[Re: chrisbennett]
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Veteran
Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1216
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Quote:
The problem I have with what you are saying is that Christian religious fanatics in both the US and Canada, swung the vote and push their religious moralism on the rest of us (such as pot laws, anti-abortion etc). Likewise in the Mid-East with Islamic extremist and Zionists, or in India with Hindu Caste proponents...
These superstitious individuals push their dogma in all of our faces. This needs to be dealt with common sense... Just as the witch burnings stopped with the Age of Reason, so to can the Modern Crusades be explained away with a good anthropological understanding of the development of religion itself...
certainly not going to disagree with you there. boils down to the fact that how I see religion and how others see it tend to be vastly different things. religion should be about a personal relationship between the individual and their chosen deity, and should be so personal that no two people should believe exactly the same thing; neither should it extend beyond the borders of their domicile, impacting other people. the problem as i see it is that people are too weak to stand up and move away from the sheep following the herd approach most take to their spirituality (and the implementation thereof).
but do you blame the PERSON for that mistake or the faith?
Edited by kractor (05/14/07 11:51 AM)
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#1307867 - 05/14/07 12:12 PM
Re: Jesus Loves Potheads Too!
[Re: kractor]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 2991
Loc: detroit area MI usa
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Quote:
but do you blame the PERSON for that mistake or the faith?
I would say to you, that it is the responsibility of all humans to be learned in logic and critical thinking. Then all rights need to be balanced with responsibilities, and no one can say, "I didn't understand" what harm they may be doing, when they push their fears onto another human. Fear of the unknown leads many people to seek answers, whether they are "god" or "science", many find comfort in their "knowledge". Knowledge is a sharp tool, and it cuts both ways. The thought that the universe is a random jumble which just happened to make "us", some people find that insulting, because they want to be "special", and "part of something wonderful" like "creation". Others, Like myself, find the universe itself fascinating, and the idea of random particles forming the basis of life, well, if you belive in "infinity", then logic leads one to accept that "eventually", anything can happen. Logically, if the "christian god" is "everything in the universe", and "is the universe", then god = satan = shiva = tao = krishna = L. Ron Hubbard. The arguing keeps people from joining together in peace and harmony, and if you acted in a way to demonstrate that you TRULY believe in peace, harmony, love, and brotherhood, it seems you guys are all a bunch of whiney assed fuckheads. Where's the peace, love, forgiveness and hand of brotherhood in here? Mikey Evans, sitting in the peanut gallery.
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