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#1273465 - 02/27/07 08:41 PM
Re: the bible is reliable.
[Re: chrisbennett]
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Ganja God
Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 5748
Loc: Grande Ronde Valley, NE Oregon...
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"The Bible offers to geneologies of Jesus Christ, one from Mary and one from Joseph. If God was Jesus' daddy why did they include Joseph's geneology?"
I could not answer this question reliably , as it is obvious you can`t either. I`ll take a crack at it though.
The inclusion of Joseph`s geneology gives detractors reason for discounting Jesus` Divine origin. But perhaps you are unaware that the Bible tells us clearly and in no uncertain terms that Mary hid those things which God revealed to her from others` ears. I am certain you understand the wisdom and the importance of her privacy in this matter. You are out of context in raising this issue . Why not include Joseph`s geneology? Was he not a good and courageous father to the Son of Man? How now brown cow? Now that one would be far more difficult to respond to.
As you yourself should know , not much is known or written about the Lord until he was Baptized in the river Jordan. Actually , there are just as many reasons why his father , Joseph`s lineage be published in the Bible if you are a scholar. Give it a shot Professor , can ye come up with any more wisdom applied to the inclusion of Joseph`s lineage?
_________________________
Little Miss Muffet sat on her tuffet, eating her curds and whey.
Along came a spider which sat down beside her and said,"Load a bowl, BBB bitch?!"
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#1273466 - 02/27/07 09:03 PM
Re: the bible is reliable.
[Re: benjamin]
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Ganja God
Registered: 06/21/00
Posts: 7136
Loc: Vancouver, BC
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Quote:
"The Bible offers to geneologies of Jesus Christ, one from Mary and one from Joseph. If God was Jesus' daddy why did they include Joseph's geneology?"
I could not answer this question reliably , as it is obvious you can`t either. I`ll take a crack at it though.
The inclusion of Joseph`s geneology gives detractors reason for discounting Jesus` Divine origin. But perhaps you are unaware that the Bible tells us clearly and in no uncertain terms that Mary hid those things which God revealed to her from others` ears. I am certain you understand the wisdom and the importance of her privacy in this matter. You are out of context in raising this issue . Why not include Joseph`s geneology? Was he not a good and courageous father to the Son of Man? How now brown cow? Now that one would be far more difficult to respond to.
As you yourself should know , not much is known or written about the Lord until he was Baptized in the river Jordan. Actually , there are just as many reasons why his father , Joseph`s lineage be published in the Bible if you are a scholar. Give it a shot Professor , can ye come up with any more wisdom applied to the inclusion of Joseph`s lineage?
Joseph’s lineage was given in attempt to show that Jesus was a descendant of King David. As a patriarchal religion, the mantle was passed down from father to son, (not from Father to mother to son). As all this was written decades or more after Jesus was dead, giving Joseph's lineage was not done out of sensitivity, or due to your preposterous claim that no-one knew because Mary was keeping it a secret.
The reason that Jesus had to be shown to be from the line of David, through his father, is that originally Christianity was as much a Jewish Independence movement as a religious one.
For some centuries before the time of Jesus, Israel had been under the dominion of a number of foreign powers, the Babylonians, the Persians, the Greeks and then the Romans. Each of these Imperial powers had their own Jewish puppet kings in charge of Israel, and the last time Israel had known independence it was under the line of Davidic kings (kings in the line of David), these kings were anointed in their initiations to their kingly positions, making them Messianic kings. Thus Jesus, the Messiah in the line of David was seen as a political threat to Rome, and also to the Jewish elite who were cooperating with Rome. The real reason for the persecution of the Christians was due to much of Rome burning down in 50 ad, as this was seen as an act of radical Christians who in their fight for independence for Israel from Imperial Rome, promised a cleansing by fire. This was also the reason that Israel was eventually squashed by Rome.
This political struggle is also the basis for the Book of Revelation. Babylon, which had disappeared centuries earlier, was used as a code name for Rome, as it was illegal to write material calling for the downfall of the Empire. The Beast "who caused his image to be worshipped" was a reference to the Emperor, as Rome allowed people to practice all sorts of religions as long as they worshipped the Emperor alongside whatever deity they worshipped. This was a problem for the Jews who were strictly monotheistic and opposed to human images as being represented divinely.
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#1273468 - 02/27/07 10:37 PM
Re: the bible is reliable.
[Re: chrisbennett]
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Ganja God
Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 5748
Loc: Grande Ronde Valley, NE Oregon...
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"Apart from the invasions of various European tribes into each others' territories, incursions came from the Middle East. Jewish communities in Egypt were Hellenized under Alexander the Great in the 4th Century BCE, Greek replacing Aramaic as their language, and some Jews formed communities in Greece. Judea became a vassal of the Roman Empire in 63 BCE, and with the growth of the Empire, the Jewish people spread throughout Europe. However, due to the nature of Judaism as a religion based on matriarchal lineage, it remained peculiar to the close knit Jewish communities and thus its religious influence upon other European peoples was limited. The Jewish mystical tradition of the Kabbalah was developed by Jews in Spain, and written down in the 13thcentury, and after the expulsion of Jews from Spain it became known to the rest of Europe, producing a school of Christian Kabbalists, and influencing many peoples up to the present day. But perhaps the main spread of Judaic ideas in Europe came through its two offshoots, Christianity and Islam. " Judaism is a matriarchal society. This means your Jewish mother confirms your Jewish identity , not your father`s. What is even more interesting in the geneological record is that David was not a Jew according to the law. He being a descendant of Ruth , the Moabite was only around four generations apart from this impurity. With the destruction of Jerusalem , the lineage of the Jews was made impotent because their records were lost and fragmented beyond reclamation anyway. Geneology is fun for disputers(scholars) to dispute. Do you have any idea how many children were named Joshua in Judea at that time because the Jews were looking for the imminent coming of the Messiah ? Multitudes.So you see , not even God worries over Moabites in the wood pile ; only because he has a wonderful sense of humor does his laughter bring such pleasure to the dicovery of God`s humor. 
_________________________
Little Miss Muffet sat on her tuffet, eating her curds and whey.
Along came a spider which sat down beside her and said,"Load a bowl, BBB bitch?!"
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#1273470 - 02/28/07 12:08 PM
Re: the bible is reliable.
[Re: chrisbennett]
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Ganja God
Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 5748
Loc: Grande Ronde Valley, NE Oregon...
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As to Israel , I shall only say what Albert Einstien said in his brief reply about his religion. What stood out the most in his reply was so obviously true. He said ,"Once a Jew , always a jew. Whether an Atheist , or liberal or conservative , one remains a Jew. He was also very actively involved in the Zionist efforts to eatablish Israel and the construction of a Hebrew university in Israel. He did not especially care for the far right wing elements within the Zionist movement as he favored a democratic socialist government. Quote:
Albert Einstein seen here with his wife Elsa Einstein and Zionist leaders, including future President of Israel Chaim Weizmann, his wife Dr. Vera Weizmann, Menachem Ussishkin and Ben-Zion Mossinson on arrival in New York in 1921.
A 5 Israeli pound note from 1968 with the portrait of Einstein.Einstein was a long supporter of Zionism, specifically Cultural Zionism, and of the newly formed Jewish State. One of the Zionist movement's dreams was to establish a Hebrew university in the Land of Israel. Einstein was active in the establishment of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, and was on the First Board of Governors along with Sigmund Freud, Martin Buber and Chaim Weizmann. In 1930, a volume titled About Zionism: Speeches and Lectures by Professor Albert Einstein was published. He also bequeathed all of his papers to the university, where they are held in the university's Albert Einstein Library. In 1952, he was offered the post of second President of the newly created state of Israel, but declined the offer, saying that he lacked the necessary skills. He is believed to be the only United States citizen ever to have been offered a position as a foreign head of state.
However, Einstein was weary of far right-wing nationalism, and during a speech at the Commodore Hotel in New York, he told the crowd "My awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power, no matter how modest. I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain. - especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks, against which we have already had to fight strongly, even without a Jewish state."[33] Involving himself in Israeli politics, he also signed an open letter published in the New York Times condemning the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), founded by Menachem Begin, a right-wing party adhering to Revisionist Zionism, commenting on the treatment of Arabs in the Deir Yassin massacre. Despite his reservations of certain politcal elements, Einstein was deeply committed to the welfare of Israel and the Jewish people for the rest of his life.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein
So you see , even non practicing Jews favor Israel . They simply can not escape their Jewish identity. This is why I continually suggest that people simply leave Izzy alone. They are never going to take their persecutions lying down again. As to present day Israel , there have always been a large body of people in Israel who never worshipped YHWH.
The law was a little tougher , that`s all.
_________________________
Little Miss Muffet sat on her tuffet, eating her curds and whey.
Along came a spider which sat down beside her and said,"Load a bowl, BBB bitch?!"
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