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#1211525 - 09/29/06 02:33 PM
Re: Sad Bastards is right
[Re: benjamin]
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Ganja God
Registered: 09/17/99
Posts: 21457
Loc: BC
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"The problem is that just like dirty DEA , there shall be dirty officials everywhere. Some will even take up shooting Heroin." That's like saying "all pharaceuticals should be illegal because some pharmacists are corrupt." There are no perfect systems - you gotta pick the one likely to cause the least harm. "Are you going to lie and tell me the dismantling of the "French Connection" and the halt of Turkish cultivation did not put the hurts on the supply until our active involvement in Vietnam?" "In a 14-month period, starting in February 1972, six major illicit heroin laboratories were seized and dismantled in the suburbs of Marseille by French national narcotics police in collaboration with U.S. drug agents. On February 29, 1972, French authorities seized the shrimp boat, Caprice des Temps, as it put to sea near Marseille heading towards Miami. It was carrying 415 kilos of heroin. Drug arrests in France skyrocketed from 57 in 1970 to 3,016 in 1972." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ConnectionWithout any restraint on production or processing, heroin exports from Pakistan and Afghanistan continued to grow. Rising from about 100 tons in 1971, Afghanistan's opium production reached 300 tons in 1982 and then doubled to 575 tons in the next harvest. ... After US diplomatic pressure forced French police to close Marseilles' heroin laboratories in 1973-74, the Corsican syndicates moved their refining operations across the border into Italy in alliance with the mafia. When the Afghan War started in 1979, moreover, the mafia's role in the Atlantic heroin trade reached an unprecedented peak. http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/opi012.htm "Another war , and another surge of young American addicts . See how being close to the supply increases addiction?" Since you can't eliminate supply, you best create controls rather than have it on the street, right? "You have been cornered David ; our argument has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that when purity and abundance of Heroin are present , the addiction rates skyrocket." And you have yet to show me where "heroin prohibition" has decreased the availability of heroin. "Street Heroin can be discounted or stepped on to maintain profitability for the illicit drug trade ; leading to other avenues of commerce , such as young , teder women commanding a high price for their dignity." The number of prostitutes that get abused goes down with THAT being made legal. There are no "pig farm murders" in Holland, but in Vancouver there are, BECAUSE IT'S PROHIBITED, UNREGULATED and out of control. "Read about Tajikistan above , and you shall find that young people are being preyed on by the pusher." The only place where prostitutes are protected are in places where it's legal. "There is no sociological basis for believing that using methadone/Heroin to treat addicts will prevent new users from being recruited." New users will be recruited everywhere. The point is that where heroin use is tolerated and assitance is given, there are less users over all and more users will end up quitting: Heroin addicts as a percentage of population (in 1995): 160 per 100,000 in the Netherlands; 430 per 100,000 in the U.S. (Sources: Netherlands Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport; White House Office of National Drug Control Policy) The Swiss studies have: * Provided evidence that if an injectable substance is to be used for substitution therapy, the prescription of injectable heroin is feasible; * Demonstrated that clients can be maintained on a stable dose of heroin; * Shown that a heroin treatment programme can be delivered at treatment centres providing methadone maintenance with some modifications, and where very high levels of services are provided; * Shown that a heroin treatment programme achieved reasonable retention levels; * Shown self-reported improvements in the individuals’ physical and mental health, social functioning (employment), and reported drug use and criminal behaviour. An important premise of providing heroin maintenance has been that it makes it possible to attract people into treatment who otherwise would not enter into treatment. http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Library/studies/OVERALLS.htm "As to government agencies keeping thes drugs out of circulation to the public , you have got to be living in another dimension ; cause it isn`t being done with prescription drugs now." If all prescription drugs were made illegal, their availability would increase and abuse would go through the roof.
_________________________
"making the earth a common treasury for all, both rich and poor." Gerrard Winstanley; April 20, 1649
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#1211526 - 09/29/06 03:19 PM
Re: Sad Bastards dont want to hear truth!
[Re: Mr Hand]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 06/06/01
Posts: 1639
Loc: Las Vegas
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Quote:
Quote:
If your prescribed heroin turned up in the hands of minors then you got to go to the clinic to get your shots. No more take it home on your own time. If you read the post above they, the clinics are doing this with methadone already.
Quote:
So yes I think it can be sold in such a way as not to end up on the blackmarket
Cocaine started out as a prescription drug look how well that worked out.
Was it really a controlled substance? Are you talking about when in the early part of this century when it was made illegal and they had all black devils are raping white women? Or are you talking about now? They still have cocaine in the hospitals. I'm sure there will be a few small towns with it still in the back room. It's still available, just not for general use.
But that kind of cocaine isn't what is being given to kids.
Is it, mr. hand?
Do you think that controlling pharma' cocaine has done anything to stop 8th graders from getting cocaine?
The rest of your story seems more like some Aussy Gangsters wanted to bypass the estabilished the official cocaine importers. Don't they have Columbians selling quantity down under? It would piss off the Australian coke king pin have his customers buying from someone else, much less buying the coke is supposed to be shipped to Canadians.
After all, the coke got to Canada with no problems. But when the coke that was alloted to Canada was diverted it became a big drug bust.
I bet I can fly into Sydney and have a hooker and a 8-ball sent to my hotel room the same day.
Especially funny is the last part, where the cop says that the distrudition network has been around a long time. That means they knew about it, and wouldn't or couldn't do anything about it. But when they started buying from other sources, then Canadian and Australian law enforcement got the information to take em down.
Who gave them that information? Maybe the people being aced out in Australia? Maybe the people selling them the cocaine in Canada?
Quote:
Drug syndicate broken in $160m cocaine bust
AAP
September 21, 2006
FEDERAL police believe a major international drug syndicate has been smashed following one of Australia's biggest cocaine busts.
Authorities arrested six men and seized... more than $162 million.
Hotner and Paddison packed the drugs into a container carrying 420 old computer monitors and flew to Brisbane on September 4 with the intention of unpacking the drugs.
But their plan was thwarted when a customs official, questioning why hundreds of old computer monitors were being shipped half-way across the globe, arranged an X-ray inspection of the container in Brisbane on September 8.
Thirty-three of the monitors contained 136 sealed packs of cocaine and 36 packs of ecstasy tablets.
You see it doesn't say that this was these guys second shipment, or how previous shipments were dilivered. Cocaine getting to Australia isn't a rare thing is it? Isn't this what one of you two want, to ship the problem drugs to another country? Like you said just ship all the heroin to Europe? You said that, right?
Quote:
It was the second major consignment of illegal drugs imported from Canada to be intercepted in the last four months.
Australian Federal Police National Manager Border and International Network, Mike Phelan, said authorities had infiltrated a sophisticated drug syndicate.
"We are extremely confident ... (we have) has closed down a very significant international crime syndicate," agent Phelan said.
"We are looking at purity just above 70 per cent which is pure import grade cocaine, so if we were to cut that say twice you're looking at a street value with $250 a gram, you're looking at a street value in excess of a $100 million."
Mr Phelan said the drugs were substituted with an inert substance and the men's movements tracked.
Following the arrests, AFP agents raided four Brisbane properties, as well as properties on the Gold Coast and Sydney. What the raids allegedly netted was not revealed.
Mr Phelan said authorities were working closely with the Canadian police. "There is a possibility of further action being taken over in Canada," he said.
"Cocaine of course is sourced from South America so Canada would be a transit point for the cocaine."
Mr Phelan said the six men all allegedly had different roles to play in the foiled importation, but that authorities were "very pleased" with the arrest of the Sydney man.
"It was a significant target for us ... (this) distribution network has been around for a long time and we will be alleging this person is a significant player within this syndicate."
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#1211528 - 09/29/06 04:18 PM
Re: Sad Bastards dont want to hear truth!
[Re: benjamin]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 06/06/01
Posts: 1639
Loc: Las Vegas
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Quote:
The Hand wins hands down.
------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Sad Bastards dont want to hear truth! [Re: rol1]
#1297984 - Mon Sep 25 2006 06:40 PM Edit Reply Quote
Do you really believe if you get heroin by prescription it wont be on the black market?
Why would you trust your Government to supply heroin to the population?
When you have a large number of people willing to blame something else for their poor judgement which only justifies a world of wrong doing on their part , you gonna have a shitload of people strung out. Heroin addiction is a culture and a lifestyle. From the above article , you can see that Methadone which government allowed addicts to take out of the clinic is winding up in the hands of others , being traded for other drugs or sold to buy skag for some extra fun. Methadone withdrawal is no picnic ; rumor has it Methadone withdrawal is even a bigger bitch to some .
So obviously, giving junkies 2 or 3 months of a drug they would not have bought with their own money means it ends up on the street in the hands of others who are looking for that heroin buzz. But other drugs don't have the hight that junkies want, so they sell the bunk and get what they want and the people that buy it for a buzz dies. Heroin is the preferred drug.
Why don't they just go to who sold their prescription? Is it because they can't tell one dose from another? So why does the programs use a drug that is more addictive and deadly? Just so the man spending his money can not buy what he wants?
Drugs so carelessly dispensed are bound to end up where not intended.
Quote:
The only sure fire way to kick Heroin is to get clean and get as far from a supply of Heroin as you can. Sound impossible?
It isn`t . Of course , you might have to put up with a lot of pain for quite a while , but that is the most effective treatment available.
Actually , there is no justification for Heroin because ol` Morphine is just as effective under a doctor`s supervision.Terminally ill patients are often given a button that doses them with Morphine ; allowing enough interval to prevent overdose.In my opinion , lethal injection with Heroin is the only truly practical use for "Devil Powder." You go to slep and never wake up.
But we have Sodium Pentathol that works even faster , so never mind.
Then why do junkies want heroin? All the other opiates are second best. Just because a doctor says that it is just as good, doesn't mean much. Just because a patient will use it doesn't mean it is the best. He doesn't have any choice, does he. Give him one botton for morphine and another for heroin.
Quote:
Let us hear the conclusion of the matter. All you need to do is prove that Heroin abuse is justification for government to step in and dole out Opioids to hypes.Your response is going to include the words "safe , clean , pure harmless and other benevolent descriptions. Forget it.
Why do you say that government is doing any thing, other than keeping it self out of commerce, if they allow junkies to buy heroin? The junkies will be buying their own drugs and probally paying a bunch of doctors and cops to supervise the operation. It won't cost the taxpayer to allow junkies to get their drugs.
The reality is that if you want more junkies you have to get them going young. If you don't have the pusher man selling untracable drugs you won't have kids getting hooked. If every kid who gets their hand on some heroin puts the heat on their pusher there won't be people giving drugs to kids. And if an adult wants to do speed, ciggarettes, booze, or coke let them do what they want. But if a kid get their hands on their drugs, then dispense them from a clinic for that individual for a year. He won't be letting a kid get his shit again.
Quote:
Put us in reality ; which is that accepting addicts` behavior is only going to create more addicts.There are just far too many of us willing to take the easy way out by getting comfortably numb.Watch "The Wall", the movie about "Pink" and remember not to watch this flick when tripping on Acid ;it has led to many bad trips because it confronts us with the pain of life.
Just because I don't want drug dealers selling hard drugs, unrestricted by laws, doesn't mean kids should be able to get them from the criminal dealers. Isn't that what you claim you want? To stop kids from getting the hard drugs?
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#1211529 - 09/29/06 05:00 PM
Re: Sad Bastards dont want to hear truth!
[Re: rol1]
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Ganja God
Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 5748
Loc: Grande Ronde Valley, NE Oregon...
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The story about the cocaine ring has a certain ring to it
that could indicate that someone/several people in authority may have been supplying the cover for this op.
In a nutshell , this illustrates why I don`t want the government involved in drug distribution.Look at the Ritallin problem for Christ`s sake! There are way too many "Kids" being introduced to drugs they do not need!
What I want the government to do is de-crim Mo`ta and direct the savings into destroying hard drugs originating outside the North American continent. If we are going to have drugs , at least make sure they are domestic products.
Let the warlords and tin horn despots earn a legitimate profit and burn their poison. It can be done. The very first place to clean house would be government employees and elected and appointed officials.
Otherwise , just maintain the status quo , because I don`t trust my government to have any part in the hard drug trade ; except to destroy the drugs and execute the pusher.
I find it strange you think the government should be given the power of Heroin addiction , and all that could lead to. 
Shown that a heroin treatment programme achieved reasonable retention levels;
* Shown self-reported improvements in the individuals’ physical and mental health, social functioning (employment), and reported drug use and criminal behaviour.
By testimony in the above article , clearly Heroin addiction is very harmful to the user. There is no stable dose of Heroin because the body develops tolerance in almost all users requiring higher doses/more frequent dosing to prevent the onset of withdrawal. That`s a fact.
These people are showing off their "Priceless Stain" men-tality that makes me suspicious of their true intent with the dishonesty they display. That would be politics and war.
PS the most powerful aphrodisiac in the world is to fall madly in love with a beautiful woman.
_________________________
Little Miss Muffet sat on her tuffet, eating her curds and whey.
Along came a spider which sat down beside her and said,"Load a bowl, BBB bitch?!"
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#1211530 - 09/29/06 05:26 PM
Re: Sad Bastards dont want to hear truth!
[Re: benjamin]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 06/06/01
Posts: 1639
Loc: Las Vegas
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Quote:
Isn`t it a shame we live so far from the Source?
jikistan Faces Addiction Crisis
Access to some of the world's cheapest and purest heroin has seen addiction rates soar.
By Saida Nazarova in Dushanbe (RCA No. 121, 24-May-02)
Thus inundated, Tajikistan has been slowly turning from a transit country to a drug consumer...
Most were young people aged 18 to 25 and 75 per cent of them were women, who tend to form a habit faster than men.
See, even over there they have to get kids hooked to have a market.
Quote:
Drug-taking is not exactly a new phenomenon in Tajikistan. Even in Soviet time, Tajiks added cannabis to their food. Gradually, however, harder substances, such as ephedrine, a stimulant found in many over-the-counter medicines, grew in popularity.
Like they didn't have hash before the Russians invaded?
Quote:
Drugs have also been used to coerce girls into prostitution and enslave them - while other sex workers turn to them to escape grim reality. Farida, who has long since married and abandoned prostitution, said a "friend" tricked her into using heroin, saying the substance in the syringe was caffeine.
See, the pimps depend on drugs being illegal to hook young girls to force them into prostitution, even in Moslem countries.
Quote:
It turned out that her supposed friend had been on a mission to recruit girls for a brothel and new users for her drug supplier.
"Rumour has it they have enslaved at least 10 more girls over the past two years, mostly from poor rural families," continued Farida, having recently seen her former brothel-owner and the person who tricked her on the street.
Drugs are easily available in most schools in Dushanbe, with boys and girls from both impoverished and affluent backgrounds falling prey to the habit.
Again the drugs are supplied to kids in school. Even Moslem schools have pushers trying to create drug wars for their profit.
In countries where share croppers only get 30% of their work, and people are poor and don't have much hope of doing better they will get high. Just go check out your very own mission in your town. Alkies, crack heads, junkies and speed freaks. If you don't watch out it may be you there. It is where you belong in the opinion of the drug warriors.
Quote:
The effort to stop the flow of drugs included equipping Russian and Tajik border guards with vehicles, night vision devices, walkie-talkies and drug testers. In 1999 a group of international narcotics experts even visited Tajikistan.
With poppy harvesting about to begin the human tragedy looks set to soar again.
Saida Nazarova is the pseudonym for a journalist in Tajikistan
web page8 to 10X more
You can tell the reporter is just another drug warrior trying to push through more drug policies to gain approval of his suppieriors. But the problems he describes are the same problems we have had for years and are happening everywhere the drug warriors are pushing for more influence.
Mr. Hand, benjamin,
Why do you want kids to keep getting drugs like they do now? Do you believe that any amount of spraying, bombing, and burnings are going to stop the drugs from getting into junior high? This drug war is doing what it was planned to do.
Drug warriors servants are doing well, as long as they toe the line.
And the rest will get broke down again and again as a lesson to the rest.
Will you loose all your retirement benefits if drugs become legal for getting high and available with out a doctor's prescription? Are you even sure your retirement is safe? If a bank goes bankrupt will you go broke? Are your retirements safe if your credit union looses its margin of profits? Is your insurance company about to flush your investments?
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#1211532 - 09/29/06 05:35 PM
Re: Sad Bastards dont want to hear truth!
[Re: Mr Hand]
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Ganja God
Registered: 09/17/99
Posts: 21457
Loc: BC
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"Just when I had hope for legalizing marijuana, the idiots are monkeybacking heroin and coke along with the deal." "The BCMP believes that the province must expand harm-reduction programs throughout the Province." http://www.bcmarijuanaparty.com/main?page=bcmp/2005/ministry-of-health-services"The history lesson he lays out shows how the prohibition of drugs has never had anything to do with health or safety, it is all about politics and world control. His case for the complete legalization of all drugs is overwhelming." http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4799.html"The harm associated with the use of "hard" drugs like cocaine and heroin has more to do with the fact that they are illegal than it does with their actual effects. As a nurse you must know that heroin from a clean and reliable source is a safe and benign substance. The fact that we require permission from a state-approved doctor before being able to consume certain medicines is ludicrous. Much as the Catholic church claimed that the only way to God was through a sanctioned priest, so modern medicine dictates that the only way to our own bodies and minds is through a sanctioned doctor. Both prohibition and prescriptions are simply a means of maintaining outside control over people's bodies and minds. -DL " http://www.cannabisculture.com/backissues/cc08/letters/pought_thots.html" Led by Dr. Connie Fozzard, a group of doctors attending the annual British Medical Association conference surprised onlookers by calling for the legalization of all drugs last week. Suggesting that even drugs such as cocaine and heroin be sold through government outlets, the physicians noted that drug prohibition "simply doesn't work."" http://www.drugsense.org/dsw/2003/ds03.n307.html"WE ARE BY NOW accustomed to sharply opposing view-points and conflicting claims about our national drug policy and its results. A succession of Presidents and Congresses have led the field with calls for a "drug-free" America and "zero tolerance" and have enacted drug prohibitions with ever-harsher criminal penalties and more militant (and more expensive) enforcement tactics. In contrast, libertarian reformers like Nobel Prize winner Milton Friedman or conservatives like William F. Buckley, Jr., call for outright legalization of all drugs. And others (this author among them) call for a public health or "harm reduction" approach, [3] reasoning that dangerous drugs will always be with us and that we had better learn how to live with them in a way that minimizes their adverse health and social consequences." http://www.marijuanalibrary.org/ii/990101.htmlThe "idiots" are in the majority, and unlike yourself, it appears that they have taken time to examine the issue and have made their choice based upon reason and evidence.
_________________________
"making the earth a common treasury for all, both rich and poor." Gerrard Winstanley; April 20, 1649
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#1211534 - 09/29/06 06:08 PM
Re: Sad Bastards dont want to hear truth!
[Re: benjamin]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 06/06/01
Posts: 1639
Loc: Las Vegas
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Quote:
Otherwise , just maintain the status quo , because I don`t trust my government to have any part in the hard drug trade ; except to destroy the drugs and execute the pusher.
I find it strange you think the government should be given the power of Heroin addiction , and all that could lead to.
Shown that a heroin treatment programme achieved reasonable retention levels;
* Shown self-reported improvements in the individuals’ physical and mental health, social functioning (employment), and reported drug use and criminal behaviour.
As it stands now the government and their partners in the big con game, organized crime, are in charge. If you are stuck in the middle where can you go? You can't stop the gangsters from selling heroin and coke. You get hurt that way. And the police won't take on organized crime, unless they apply the laws to some kids, but the prostitution, drugs and gambling doesn't get touched.
The law has not shown that they keep drugs from kids. But they keep it expensive, and only in the hands of criminals.
Tag the drugs. Keep up with where the drugs come from. Arrest the people giving drugs to minors. Many police don't care and are happy with their jobs and their job performance.
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