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#1180816 - 06/16/06 10:31 PM
The Nazis
[Re: davidmalmolevine]
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Super Stoner

Registered: 05/25/04
Posts: 4147
Loc: Winnipeg Manitoba
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The Nazis!
This was published in this weeks Winnipeg Free Press.
The point was made in a Simpsons cartoon where the Simpsons pressed buttons to inflict pain on each other.
Who is capable of being a Nazi among us? Just about anybody. David seem to think the Nazi knew they were evil. They thought they were free.
Why good people commit atrocities
Tue Jun 13 2006
By Rosa Brooks
ARE Americans good people?
After Vietnam -- after My Lai, after the free-fire zones -- many Americans were no longer sure.
After Haditha, Iraq, the same question is beginning to haunt us again. We're supposed to be a virtuous nation; our troops are supposed to be the good guys. If it turns out that marines murdered 24 civilians, including children and infants, how could that have happened?
In response to Haditha, U.S. government officials quickly reverted to the "bad apple" theory.
It's a tempting theory, and not just for the Bush administration. It suggests a vast and reassuring divide between "us" (the virtuous majority, who would never, under any circumstances, commit cold-blooded murder) and "them" (the sociopathic, bad-apple minority). It allows us to hold on to our belief in our collective goodness. If we can just toss the few rotten Americans out of the barrel quickly enough, the rot won't spread.
The problem with this theory is that it rests on a false assumption about the relationship between character and deeds. Yes, sociopaths exist, but ordinary, "good" people are also perfectly capable of committing atrocities.
In 1961, Yale psychologist Stanley Milgram conducted a famous experiment. He told subjects to administer electric shocks to other people, ostensibly to assess the effect of physical punishment on learning. In fact, Milgram wanted to "test how much pain an ordinary citizen would inflict on another person simply because he was ordered to by an experimental scientist."
Quite a lot of pain, it turned out. Most of Milgram's subjects continued to administer what they believed to be severe and agonizing shocks even when their "victims" (actually Milgram's assistants) screamed and begged them to stop.
Milgram's subjects weren't sociopaths. On the contrary, most expressed extreme distress about administering progressively more severe shocks. But almost all of them did it anyway.
Milgram's basic findings have been extended and confirmed since the 1960s. It's depressing, but experimental evidence and historical experience suggest that even the gentlest people can usually be induced to inflict or ignore suffering.
There are several key factors that lead "good people" to do terrible things. The first, as the Milgram experiments powerfully demonstrated, is authority: Most ordinary people readily allow the dictates of "authorities" to trump their own moral instincts.
The second is conformity. Few people have the courage to go against the crowd.
The third is dehumanization of the victims. The Nazis routinely depicted Jews as "vermin" in need of extermination, for instance. Similarly, forcing victims to wear distinctive clothing (yellow stars, prison uniforms), shave their heads and so on can powerfully contribute to their dehumanization.
Orders, peer expectations and dehumanization need not be explicit to have a powerful effect. In adversarial settings such as prisons or conflict zones, subtle cues and omissions -- the simple failure of authorities to send frequent, clear and consistent messages about appropriate behaviour, for instance -- can be as powerful as direct orders. Against this backdrop, is it really surprising that ordinary, decent marines might have committed atrocities in Haditha? All the key ingredients were present in one form or another: Intense pressure from authorities to capture or kill insurgents; intense pressure from peers to seem tough and to avenge the deaths of comrades; the almost inevitable dehumanization that occurs when two groups look different, speak different languages, live apart and are separated by a chasm of mistrust.
Add in the discomfort, the fear, the constant uncertainty about the identity and location of the enemy and the relative youth of so many of our soldiers, and you have a recipe for atrocities committed not by "bad apples" but by ordinary people little different, and probably no worse, than most of us.
Of course, individuals still make their own choices. Most of Milgram's experimental subjects administered severe electric shocks -- but a few refused. If marines are proved to have massacred civilians at Haditha, they should be punished accordingly.
But let's not let the Bush administration off the hook. It's the duty of the government that sends troops to war to create a context that enables and rewards compassion and courage rather than callousness and cruelty. This administration has done just the opposite.
Our troops were sent to fight an unnecessary war, without adequate resources or training for the challenges they faced. At the same time, senior members of the administration made clear their disdain for the Geneva Convention's rules on war and for the principles and traditions of the military. Belated and half-hearted investigations into earlier abuses sent the message that brutality would be winked at -- unless the media noticed, in which case a few bad apples would be ceremoniously ejected from the barrel, while higher-ups would go unpunished.
If we're talking about apples, we should also keep another old proverb in mind: The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
Rosa Brooks is an associate professor at the University of Virginia
School of Law.
-- Los Angeles Times
Edited by Chris Buors (06/16/06 10:32 PM)
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#1180820 - 06/17/06 06:52 AM
Re: Alex Jones vs. Dark Forces online video
[Re: Chris Buors]
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Super Stoner
 
Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: still waters
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Quote:
I think people liked Bill Gates' persona which is essentially why Wal-Mart suceeded.
People liked the imagery of a trustable figurehead.
That's right, WASP
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#1180822 - 06/17/06 12:54 PM
Re: Alex Jones vs. Dark Forces online video
[Re: rtav]
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Super Stoner

Registered: 05/25/04
Posts: 4147
Loc: Winnipeg Manitoba
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It sure does.
It's hard to argue with the historical facts.
WASP's bring the Magna Carta into existance in 1215.
Richard Rumbold was a WASP.
"I may say this is a deluded generation, veiled with ignorance, that tho popery and slavery be riding in upon them, do not perceive it; tho I am sure there was no man born marked of God above another, for none comes into the world with a saddle on his back, neither any booted and spurred to ride him."
John Locke, Tom Jefferson, John Stuart Mill all WASP's.
Liberty did not just happen, it took a 1000's of years to develop. The ancient Greeks and Romans, The Saracens and The Americans.
Since time began, all manner of governance has been foisted on humanity.
Those are the only known experiments in liberalism.
The classic liberals did better than any others at delievering an opportunity for individuals to pursue their own happiness.
WASPS.
The world would still be a very totalitarian place without their contributions.
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#1180823 - 06/17/06 09:32 PM
Re: Alex Jones vs. Dark Forces online video
[Re: Chris Buors]
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Ganja God
 
Registered: 09/17/99
Posts: 21457
Loc: BC
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"The world would still be a very totalitarian place without their contributions."
Most of the world is still a totalitarian place (except for where you live) because of the WASPS.
Here's some more reality to interfere with your fantasy:
*
In 1999, the richest one percent of the population is projected to receive as much after-tax income as the bottom 38 percent of Americans combined. That means that the 2.7 million richest Americans have as much after-tax income as the bottom 100 million Americans.
*
Back in 1977, the richest one percent of Americans received 7.3 percent of all national after-tax income. In 1999, they’ll get 12.9 percent. But the 60 percent of Americans in the middle of the income scale are expected to receive a smaller percentage of the national after-tax income than any time since 1977.
*
The Center analyzed after-tax income for a reason: The study clearly shows how taxes have redistributed income upward instead of downward. The tax policies of 1977–1999 have only widened an already cavernous income gap. In fact, the study found, if the richest one percent of Americans were paying the same percentage of federal income tax as they were back in 1977, they’d each owe $40,000 more this year.
http://lpa.igc.org/lpv46/lpp46_wto_roundup.html
Amnesty International Report 2005
During 2004, the human rights of ordinary men, women and children were disregarded or grossly abused in every corner of the globe. Economic interests, political hypocrisy and socially orchestrated discrimination continued to fan the flames of conflict around the world. The “war on terror” appeared more effective in eroding international human rights principles than in countering international “terrorism”. The millions of women who suffered gender-based violence in the home, in the community or in war zones were largely ignored. The economic, social and cultural rights of marginalized communities were almost entirely neglected.
http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/index-eng
Respect for human rights remained an illusion for many as governments across the Americas failed to comply with their commitments to uphold fundamental human rights. Widespread torture, unlawful killings by police and arbitrary detention persisted. The US-led “war on terror” continued to undermine human rights in the name of security, despite growing international outrage at evidence of US war crimes, including torture, against detainees.
Democratic institutions and the rule of law were at risk throughout much of Latin America. Political instability – fuelled by corruption, organized crime, economic disparities and social unrest – resulted in several attempts to bring down governments. Most were by constitutional means but some, as in Haiti, by-passed the democratic process.
Political armed groups and criminal gangs, principally those engaged in drug trafficking, had an increasing impact on people’s fundamental rights. Poverty and discrimination affected millions of people, particularly the most vulnerable groups – women, children, indigenous people and Afro-descendant communities.
Positive developments were seen in the vigorous campaigns maintained by human rights defenders, who held both governments and armed groups to account, in defiance of harassment and persecution. Courts in several countries gave rulings that brought closer the prospect of bringing to trial military and political leaders responsible for massive human rights violations in previous decades.
http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/2am-index-eng
Thanks, WASPS!
http://www.gaylelynds.com/images/misc/bilderberg.jpg
Edited by davidmalmolevine (06/17/06 09:33 PM)
_________________________
"making the earth a common treasury for all, both rich and poor." Gerrard Winstanley; April 20, 1649
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#1180824 - 06/17/06 10:39 PM
Re: Alex Jones vs. Dark Forces online video
[Re: davidmalmolevine]
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Super Stoner

Registered: 05/25/04
Posts: 4147
Loc: Winnipeg Manitoba
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Quote:
In 1999, the richest one percent of the population is projected to receive as much after-tax income as the bottom 38 percent of Americans combined. That means that the 2.7 million richest Americans have as much after-tax income as the bottom 100 million Americans.
What has that got to do with the price of tea in China?
Wealth is a good thing. One per cent of the population are also providing employment for the 38%.
These numbers are meaningless to anyone except someone who suffers from a very old sin: envy. Bill Gates being rich has nothing to do with Lorretta Nall being poor. Lorretta's life is better because of Bill Gates' contributions to humanity. Lorretta and every other human being's life is greatly enhanced because of Bill Gates' entrenpeneurial abilities.
Quote:
Back in 1977, the richest one percent of Americans received 7.3 percent of all national after-tax income. In 1999, they’ll get 12.9 percent. But the 60 percent of Americans in the middle of the income scale are expected to receive a smaller percentage of the national after-tax income than any time since 1977.
Some more envy politics? Once more there is a reson some people get rich and others go broke.
The consumers decided who got what share of the nation's productive wealth despite all the best efforts of special interests to skew market forces.
Quote:
The Center analyzed after-tax income for a reason: The study clearly shows how taxes have redistributed income upward instead of downward. The tax policies of 1977–1999 have only widened an already cavernous income gap. In fact, the study found, if the richest one percent of Americans were paying the same percentage of federal income tax as they were back in 1977, they’d each owe $40,000 more this year.
I have never heard of a better argument for getting rid of taxes and all the evil they bring in their wake.
You are better off leaving the wealth in Bill Gates hands than George Bush's or Bill Clinton's.
David, you and the like minded do not appreciate the role of the entrepeneur, the risk taker, the dreamer, the innovator like Bill Gates.
There was and is no such role in a centerally planned system. Like it or don't like it a natural oligarchy manefests itself in any group of human beings. David Malmo-Levine is coinsidered a leader in the cannabis movement for his actions. It ain't no partnership and the collective did not act. It was David MalmoLevine that got his name on a constitutional challange. It was DML who was arrested and roughed up, not the collective and not your partners.
One person had the dream of a hemp museam. One person directed the energies to ensure the place opened.
So that people like Bill Gates and Sam Walton arise on the merits of their virtues and talents ought to be celebrated not demonized.
Billions of people have walked the face of the Earth and maybe 2000 of them have stood the test of time as innovators.
Quote:
Respect for human rights remained an illusion for many as governments across the Americas failed to comply with their commitments to uphold fundamental human rights. Widespread torture, unlawful killings by police and arbitrary detention persisted. The US-led “war on terror” continued to undermine human rights in the name of security, despite growing international outrage at evidence of US war crimes, including torture, against detainees.
Democratic institutions and the rule of law were at risk throughout much of Latin America. Political instability – fuelled by corruption, organized crime, economic disparities and social unrest – resulted in several attempts to bring down governments. Most were by constitutional means but some, as in Haiti, by-passed the democratic process.
Political armed groups and criminal gangs, principally those engaged in drug trafficking, had an increasing impact on people’s fundamental rights. Poverty and discrimination affected millions of people, particularly the most vulnerable groups – women, children, indigenous people and Afro-descendant communities.
Positive developments were seen in the vigorous campaigns maintained by human rights defenders, who held both governments and armed groups to account, in defiance of harassment and persecution. Courts in several countries gave rulings that brought closer the prospect of bringing to trial military and political leaders responsible for massive human rights violations in previous decades.
I never heard a stronger arguement to get rid of government altogether.
Somehow I think the world would be a lot worse off if the Chinese, The Russians or anyone else was producing the most wealth.
These Bilderberg people David, how do they get people to hand their hard earned money over?
You cannot enrichen the poor by impovershing the rich.
Envy is one of the Seven Deadly Sins. Leads to spiritual death.
Covetouesness is closely related. It gets bad when the state is affected.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/sinful.html
Quote:
Envy. Again, this is a word hardly heard anymore. Envy is not the same as jealousy. Jealousy is merely wishing that you enjoyed the same property and status as another. Envy means the desire to harm someone else solely because he enjoys some quality, virtue, or possession, and you do not. It is the desire to destroy the success or good fortune of another.
In the current round of corporation bashing, I fear the unleashing of envy against people because of their personal accomplishments. And we see the work of envy in the redistributionist welfare state.
Some people say that what matters most is not that the welfare state helps the poor but rather that it hurts the rich. So too with the inheritance tax, which collects relatively little revenue, but does grave damage to would-be family dynasties.
How many Congressional speeches against the business class and the rich are driven by this deadly sin? All too many. Antitrust policy that seeks to smash a business solely because it is big and successful is a working out of envy. I recall an article by Michael Kinsley several years ago in Slate Magazine that honestly asked the question: what is wrong with envy?
Nothing, he concluded. In fact, he rightly observed, it is the foundation of much modern public policy. Even so, it is a deadly sin. It is one that will destroy society if it is fully unleashed. And nowhere is it more relentlessly unleashed than within the culture of the state itself, which attacks success in business and private life in every way.
A century ago, many private dynasties had more wealth at their disposal than the federal government. Would the modern Envy State tolerate such a thing? Not likely. All wealth apart from the state's own is up for grabs but particularly dynastic wealth.
Covetousness. The related sin of desiring to grasp what belongs to another, through whatever means one can assemble, is also socially harmful. Through taxation and welfare programs, the state is effectively blessing the sin of covetousness.
Now, let us be clear. To covet something is not the same as an innocent desire to improve one’s lot in life. This is a good impulse, one that drives people to succeed. Covetousness is different because it cares nothing for the means used to achieve one’s goals.
Instead of productive exchange, covetousness resorts to theft, whether private theft or public theft that uses the government. We saw covetousness turn to a public clamor after the collapse in stock prices in 1999 and following, when the public demanded that the Fed do something to stop their investments from going belly up.
Here again, we see the desire for money outstrip the moral consideration of how precisely this money is to be acquired. And the more the state feeds the sin of covetousness, the more of it we are likely to see, and the more bourgeois ethics fall into disuse.
The modern state is nothing if not covetous. It has its gaze constantly fixed on our liberty, privacy, wealth, and independence, and desires to take through any means possible. In the covetous state, liberty is always declining, the percentage of wealth subject to taxation always growing, and the ability for institutions and individuals to thrive apart from government blessing always in doubt.
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#1180825 - 06/17/06 11:21 PM
Re: Alex Jones vs. Dark Forces online video
[Re: Chris Buors]
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Ganja God
 
Registered: 09/17/99
Posts: 21457
Loc: BC
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"Wealth is a good thing."
Excess wealth creates poverty and "ethical" companies like IG Farben.
"One per cent of the population are also providing employment for the 38%."
The bottom 38% are either unemployed or working poor - wage slaves - the "exploited".
"These numbers are meaningless to anyone except someone who suffers from a very old sin: envy."
These numbers are important to people who want justice and an end to privledge and corruption and exploitation and the domestication of the human race.
"Bill Gates being rich has nothing to do with Lorretta Nall being poor."
Bill Gates being rich has to do with his rich family and privledge. Rockefeller and Mellon have to do with Loretta Nall being poor, as they used their excessive wealth to put the hemp-fuel and hemp medicine farmers out of business.
"Lorretta's life is better because of Bill Gates' contributions to humanity."
Are you arguing that every other human on earth was incapable of doing what Gates would have done, and/or would have refused to do so unless promised tens of billions of dollars?
"David, you and the like minded do not appreciate the role of the entrepeneur, the risk taker, the dreamer, the innovator like Bill Gates. There was and is no such role in a centerally planned system."
This IS a centrally planned system. The planning is done at Bilderberg, Skull and Bones, CFR, Trilateral meetings etc etc, and the economic control is through the military budgets - which is bigger than the rest of the budget by a factor of ten.
_________________________
"making the earth a common treasury for all, both rich and poor." Gerrard Winstanley; April 20, 1649
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