Cause or effect these brain chemicals rushing around?


That is the one question that is never asked or answered in nall this brain chemical stuff.


For instance, think about someone watching a tied sports contest and the star player making an unbelievable play to win the game in the dying 2 seconds. The crowd rises to their feet in wild jubulation. People who are into sports get very emotional about that kind of stuff.

One could just imagine all the brain chemicals swirling around as the "cliff hanger" is in progress and what brought the guy to his feet in wild applause.

Was it the brain chemicals or his will?

Chris,

- depression
cause or effect

- heroin withdrawl "shakes"
cause or effect

- the effect of LSD in the brain
cause or effect

- alcohol "DT's"

- seeing bugs everywhere
???

what affects one mind
doesn't affect all

what defines the one doesn't define all

I know you like absolutes,
that way everything is nice and clean and wrapped up
like a christmas present!

But the human brain is a marvel...
we are too complex to apply a "golden rule"

We need to make room for the unter-mensch

Depression is common unhappiness. There are as many reasons for depression as there are stations in life.

I would suggest the world is a fucked up shithole and there is lots to be depressed about. It is my personal theory that the government is responsible for most of the unhappiness in the lives of citizens.

The argument, once more has never been what drugs do. That is for the acedemics of pharmacology to debate.

How drugs get into a person's system. I argue free will and other's argue chemical possession.

Even the head of Big-pharma came out a couple of years ago and stated bluntly that the drugs available now only work on about 70% of the people who use them. That's why the doctor always says to give the drug a try and report and bad reactions or no effect and then they will try soemthing else.

The spokesperson for Big pharma made it clear that he was giving us this information because it is forseen in the Industry that drugs can be made DNA specific. They want to taylor drugs to the individual's DNA.

So like I said, I have no argument about what drugs do. It's all about how these drugs come to be in a persons body.

I have read the Ron Liefer Critique of coercive psychiatry and was aware of just how incomplete the understanding of how the brain works is.

But, no matter how complex the chemical electrical impules and other brain materials are, they still serve one purpose. To meet the ends of the goals we set. Purposeful action always has reason.

Never forget about Mr. Mesmer and the notions of animal magnatism.

"Imagination is everything, magnetism is nothing." --Ben Franklin--

> like I said, I have no argument about what drugs do.

ahh, but thats not what you asked me. You were talking about the effect of chemicals in the brain, whether the response is induced by the action or the action by the response. This alludes to the notion that chemical imbalances can affect your personality, and we all know that drugs will do that.

When you post the formula for a balance brain chemical, then i'll start taking your position seriously.


That is the question Dr. Ron Liefer asks when patients show up having been diagnosed as having a chemical imbalance.

Which test is that they use to determine this chmeical imbalance?

Because if we know what chemicals are imbalanced it would be easy enough to balance them off.


So what is the name of this chemical imbalance test?

Your attempt at criticisim only indicates your lack of knowledge. Human beings are complex bio-systems with many complex processes happening simultaneously. Given the variations of genetics and environment, stages of life, etc, there is no set formula to say what 'proper' levels of neurotransmitters and associated chemicals should be for all of us, they be a constant flux anyway. We cannot write a formula to describe anything exactly, only so close as to make no difference. We take a real situation, abstract it into an idealized model of what we are observing in order to make predictions on that model. When we can predict with a large degree of certainty some behavior, we have science.

I seem to be the only guy here who has ever argued that it was all conjecture what goes on in the brain.

All one has to do is run the word Liefer through the search engine to see how many times I was critical of the notion that brain chemicals have anything to do with behavior at all. All the "research" is paid for by big pharma and it is suggestive of psychiatry's notions. Liefer makes the case that it pays for all this chemical imbalance nonsense to be believed by psychiatry


The strongest arguments

As a significant chunk of the research on the pathology of mental disorders is performed by universitys. Of course as a disciple of Ssasz we can expect Liefer to ignore anything to do with pathology and other worthless things like that which might reduce his blatherings to to the value they deserve.
Especially since acknowledgement of psychiatric research as medicine would be the same as acknowledging that his HMO would have to pay for it.

Quote:

---

I seem to be the only guy here who has ever argued that it was all conjecture what goes on in the brain.

---

Nope, neither would you be the first to ignore repeatable direct cause and effect, measurable pathology, and common sense.
The fact that psychiatry is very like the aerospace industry in 1920 does not mean that is has, nor will increasing have, value. Yes Chris, I acknowledge that our understanding is limited, and that there are many 'doctors' that are taking advantage of that lack of understanding to profit, just look at Ssasz.

Fact.
Manic/Depressive disorder causes a measurable and progressive reduction in brain matter.

Fact.
Specific Seritonin Re-uptake Inhibitors are NOT 'like a flashlight', they are like the water you use to wash the dirt off of the 'flashlight' lens, allowing the light to shine as clearly as possible.

Also a fact. SSRI's are not a cure in and of themselves, they are a bandaid.

Speaking of medication, it looks like you have been off yours for quite some time!

Quote:

---

Fact.
Manic/Depressive disorder causes a measurable and progressive reduction in brain matter.

---

That is BS or Manic/depressive would be listed in pathology book rather than the psychiatric Bible.

Quote:

---

Specific Seritonin Re-uptake Inhibitors are NOT 'like a flashlight', they are like the water you use to wash the dirt off of the 'flashlight' lens, allowing the light to shine as clearly as possible.

---

Did you read Alan Young's letter Frankenweed posted in the current news section?

Quote:

---

The drug approval process in Canada may be rigorous and demanding, but if Big Pharma needs to bring a drug to market quickly to offset enormous research expenditures, it will often opt to take ethical shortcuts to enter the market. It is now common knowledge that Big Pharma tried to suppress test results showing that certain anti-depressants, including Prozac, Zoloft and Paxil, were less effective than a placebo in many cases. --Alan Young-- Frankenweed

---

Is that what you were pointing to with these seritonin uptake re-inhibitors?

Szasz exposed that big-pharma was behind all the research into these "mental health" drugs 25 years ago. No one listened.

Szasz said that they will find the chemical cause of mental illness the same day they find the chemical cause of Christianity.

Meaning what people believe has a lot to do with brain chemicals swirling about.

I knew all about the research Alan Young points out a long time ago. So why would I be contributing to the coffers of big-pharma and lending any legitimacy to the medicalization of behaviors?

Read Alan Young letter, he'll tell ya too. Big-pharma, medicine and politicians are the only persons who benefit from the pills you support pushing. I'm on the placebo, clean air and it works just as good as the drugs you suggested and Christianity too.

Nobody listened to Ssasz because he is a nutcase.

Quote:

---

1. Evil psychiatry originated millions of years ago in an evil alien galactic empire, the Marcab Federation.

2. The planet Earth is a prison planet which is operated and controlled by evil Marcabian psychiatrists who are located on the planet Mars.

3. The evil Marcabian psychiatrists operate a system of Implant Stations which are located on Mars and the planet Venus. Human beings have been implanted and programmed to return to these Implant Stations.upon each body death. Here they are implanted by the evil alien psychiatrists to forget their past life, then they are programmed to return to earth where they will take over a new baby body. The implants are induced by advanced electronics and humans have been implanted countless lifetimes by the evil alien psychiatrists. Once implanted and programmed the being is packaged in ice and is returned to earth by flying saucers and dumped in the pacific ocean. The being has been programmed to find its way to a new body.

4. The evil Marcabian psychiatrists maintain a telepathic control over the evil earthling psychiatrists.

---

This is his 'religious' belief.

Quote:

---

I'm on the placebo, clean air and it works just as good as the drugs you suggested and Christianity too.

---

Yep. And anyone reading even this thread knows just how good an example you are as a 'sane' and 'rational' person.
I'm sorry Chris, but you are about as nuts as anyone I have seen post here.