Although I disagree with much of what Chris Buors says, I do like Szasz. You should check out "Ceremonial Chemistry", it's quite well-written. I quote Szasz on his analysis of the drug user as a modern scapegoat in my PTV show on genocide:

http://pot.tv/archive/shows/pottvshowse-3096.html

From what little I have read of Szaz he seems pretty right on as well, just because Buors along with Tom Cruise and other Clams like him, does not mean Szaz would have agreed with much of what these fans have to say.

Perhaps Szasz fans Malmo-Levine and Bennett can tell us what Szasz says about homosexuality in Sex by Prescription?

Cruise and Buors would turn out to know what they are talking about if either of you read that one.


And you can read Our Right To Drugs: The Case for a Free-Market too David. There won't be too much of the socialism part of libertarianism in there but he does offer a template to end the drug war. He patterns it on the Cobden and Bright Model of The Corn Laws, which being a historian, you would know all about.


What did you think of Szasz's "gender" argument?

I thought it was brilliant as usual.

Master iconoclast of our time that Szasz, no politcal correctness about him either.

Plain speaker, easy to understand too, for a psychaiatrist that is.

Like I said From "what little I have read,' so I am no big fan. Why don't you just provide us with your usual selective edit and put your own spin on it as you have been doing.

The historical record has shown that homosexuality is a natural phenomena,what is new is concepts such as "moralism" and "sin" which the all to judgemental Buors has been spinning with.

Szasz doesn't need no spinning or interpetation.


He is a plain speaker.


Morality may be a new concept to Chris Bennett perhaps but the liturature would have it that moral judement is as old as humanity is itself too. There have always been those who reject the dominate values of the culture.

When homosexuality was all the rage in ancient Greece and decadent Rome, there must of been some persons who did not engage in the behavior because they found it repulsive.

Bonking women over the head with clubs and dragging them back to your cave was considered perfectly natural behavior too!

The only thing that has changed about moral judements is that they are all made with medical sounding words to lend them an air of legitimacy.

The concept of vices and virtues served humanity well since time began and will continue to do so after humanity gets over the medicalized morals BS we seem to have been plagued with for our age.

"When homosexuality was all the rage in ancient Greece and decadent Rome, there must of been some persons who did not engage in the behavior because they found it repulsive."

likely it was a matter of taste, such moralism probably came via chrsitianity (inherited from Judaism) and led to the dark ages. In countless cultures homosexuals, having aspects of both sexes, were seen as having elements of both worlds and were honored as shamans and priests. All this morality Buors is espousing is based on a lot of out dated dogma and has nothing what so ever to do with right or wrong from a social sense.

"Bonking women over the head with clubs and dragging them back to your cave was considered perfectly natural behavior too! "

Again Buors has to pull out the cruel straw man of comparing the victimless act of consentual sex between two men, to the rape and abduction of women.

Buors, Gay sex is not comparable to rape, murder and other crimes which require victims, so stop using that hate based comparison.

"And you can read Our Right To Drugs: The Case for a Free-Market too David. There won't be too much of the socialism part of libertarianism in there but he does offer a template to end the drug war. He patterns it on the Cobden and Bright Model of The Corn Laws, which being a historian, you would know all about."

Since I don't own a copy, and you obviously do, why not share a few choice quotes with us so we can all enjoy it?

In the cave man days, there was no rape. You were talking about how natural gay sex is and my point is that there are a lot of natural behaviors that civilized man has control over that animals don't.

I would suggest that morality came to humanity a lot sooner than Chrisitianity.

And I will even grant you that because it is obvious. My personal views of homosexuality are shaped by the Roman Catholic indoctrination I recived when I was a tot.

That is why I can't figure out why people point to just the one incident of meeting a pervert that caused me to hate homosexuals. That is BS. Experiance before and after certainly had influences. I can tell you in no uncertain terms that my mother made it clear that she was not a fan of homosexuality and that she directed my interests to the local female population of my youth that she thought would make good company. I always had age appropriate girlfriends with me being 17 and the girlfriend being 18 and therfore buying the booze the worst of embarrasement I had to suffer.

So I never did any of that apple cart upsetting behavior, first, none of it ever appealed to me. I prefered to fit in with the heterosexuals, second, keeping Mom happy made life easier in the Buors household. She liked the kettle cord for disiplanry measures. That lasted until I was 13 and could take it away from her.

So like I said. There ain't no latency, there ain't no unexplored adventure, there is no hatred. It just ain't for me thanks.

And I'll fight the homophobe stigmatization until kingdom comes.

There is more to the love them or hate propaganda argument you make too. I think they call that the "false choice" arguement of propaganda.

"In the cave man days, there was no rape."

Still it required the subjegation of women, people evolved and saw that it was wrong to impose thier will on others by force.

"My personal views of homosexuality are shaped by the Roman Catholic indoctrination I recived when I was a tot. "

And they are about the best case study for the harms of homophobia and repressing the sex drive that there could be. In fact, it was the pedophile priests of Mount Cashel Orphanage that initiated my own interest into the Bible over 15 years ago. Such perversions are the inevitable result of the repressed sex drive.

The hsitorical reality regarding Christianity is that in the earliest period there were some purely homosexual christian sects, and their is reasonable vidence to suggest that Jesus himself may have partaken of homosexual acts.

"That is why I can't figure out why people point to just the one incident of meeting a pervert that caused me to hate [note the term "hate" here] homosexuals. That is BS. Experiance before and after certainly had influences. I can tell you in no uncertain terms that my mother made it clear that she was not a fan of homosexuality and that she directed my interests to the local female population of my youth that she thought would make good company."

So here you justify your "hate" of homosexuals, and point out that your own hetrosexuality may be the result of the social conditioning of your homophobic mother:

"keeping Mom happy made life easier in the Buors household.She liked the kettle cord for disiplanry measures. That lasted until I was 13 and could take it away from her. "

You should press charges. I am so sorry, people are always a product of their environment to a large extent and I should have shown more compassion for you in this debate. Still, you are a case study for "homophobia" and i hope are discussion has at least help you define your views in a more compassionate way.

You need to read Sex by Prescription real bad Chris.


Sexology is all bullshit.


Medicalizing sexuality.


I understand how morality is shaped. The options were all presented years ago and when I came to a conclusion, I decided that girls were the creature that offered me carnal pleasures.

The idea of man on man and women on women just seemed bizzare. Men and women are complimentary sexes and I'm pretty sure that is the way nature intended it.

Szasz writes about all that sexology stuff and rips it to shreads.

Repressions and all that theory is nonsense.

Moral sex is what the particular individual is comfortable with. Immoral is where the individual will draw the line for himself.

I won't let men stick thier dick up my ass because I think its immoral.


The next guy over might think having that guy stick his dick up his ass will be about the greatest thing ever since the beer bottle was pulled out. That is for the next guy over to judge.


I was speaking in the third person with a trait you have attributed to me "hate" because I say the idea is BS in the next sentence.

The RC community of St. Laurent Manitoba had few homosexuals if any.

To me it's like driving a train. CN puts you in the classroom to get first crack at teaching you how you are supposed to drive the train. Then when you get out on the road, the first thing your told is to forget everything they taught you in school and then the guys teach you how to drive one by the seat of your pants.

The RC church had first crack at me. I went to school. I found a crowd to fit in with. We all shared the same general values and we all agreed that homosexuality was not for me. Birds of a feather flock together.

What you printed about Jesus is one of the reasons I never read religious rantings.

So far as I know little is know about Jesus until he shows up at about age 30. Dies at 33. So far as I know he never even got layed or nothing. None of that matters to me.

Same with the moral debancery of the golden age of Rome and Greece where everybody did it.

You sure mmake it sound like I am the unconventional but that is wrong.

I led a wild life. You can have a look at my picture at Wiki if you like. I laid just about every girl I desired from my high schools days. A few got away.

The party started at 15 and ended at 29 when I decided that I had about gluttoned out. I never attended a party that ran out of booze. I always had lots of loot and spent it like i might die later that day and there was always plenty more to make tommorrow. Bar sluts, 1000 of them. Men 0.

Not for me. They don't appeal, I don't even like the idea.

There would be no need of a "case study." My views would overwhelmingly be the conventional view.

The heterophobe have to get that through their heads. The cae study has always been why people would choose the unconventional. There have always been people who reject societys dominate values and by far the dominate value of our age is heteroseuality.