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#1072425 - 08/26/05 09:09 AM
Re: Unofficial Pot-TV Bit Torrent Beta Test
[Re: Karlis]
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Journeyman
Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 57
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Nice work guys! The "official" pot-tv torrent tracker has been up for some time now but it's way more in alpha than even beta. But check it out anyway
http://media.pot.tv:6969
The system is set up to produce a torrent from anything chris uploads to the server (which doesn't work for the shows he's posting lately, since they're from other sites). I consider this an incomplete solution since I haven't been able to get the system seeding all the shows, I haven't seen any good software for seeding 3000+ files at once (reliable and stable).
Bloody hell Karlis, where have you been mate? 
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Where are you downloading the shows from? Are you capturing the data from the stream? What are you using for a tracker? I really like the tracker graphs, what are you using to generate those?
Before the last outage I started downloading smi's and captured each rtsp source URL and generated a show mapping. I only managed to burn about half a dozen DVDs by which time the version of NetTransport I was using corrupted its own configs and couldn't recover, so I gave up for a time.
Then the outage happened earlier this year, and now Marc's extradition, so I finally took the 2 hours required to get this going. Kind of scary how easy and quick it was, but I've hit a brick wall there so hopefully we can all work towards the definitive solution.
I'm running trackerlyze.pl over the tracker's logfile, few config options to pipe it through rrdtool and rrdgraph.
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If you want to help integrate the tracker info and the pot-tv site, you can contact me via email
Have done, but I'd like to keep a running commentary here as well. Everyone has asked the right questions as you point out, so why not use this thread to reach a consensus if we can.
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#1072426 - 08/26/05 09:14 AM
Re: Unofficial Pot-TV Bit Torrent Beta Test
[Re: v00d00]
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Journeyman
Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 57
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Yeah *ALL* shows on torrents will be a problem.. as that's just too many shows. Most people if they cared to, would probably only seed for 10 files at once (which alone is a lot).
Not many people will want to keep a permanent library, but I certainly do. Inevitably we'll be seeding the latest 10 or 20 shows, but at long as we have a copy of each file out there somewhere then we're fine. We don't need to seed all 4000 shows at the same time, as long as they're regularly released, re-released, and cycled through as required then we've solved redundancy and that is really my primary aim. If we as a culture lost the archive, I would be very sad.
I'm happy to co-ordinate releases, but we need to sort out a few things first. (sorry I hate replying to each post in turn but I want to highlight a few things as I go).
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#1072427 - 08/26/05 09:34 AM
Re: Unofficial Pot-TV Bit Torrent Beta Test
[Re: Karlis]
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Journeyman
Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 57
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Now, the 2.7 gigs transferred via torrent so far would cost pot.tv about $2.70, so we're not saving much yet, but the monthly pot.tv streaming costs are about $1800 (yes, 1.8 terabytes, or 1800 Gb), so there's a lot of potential to save money on bandwidth and spend it on new show production.
Heh, well there goes savings out the window. Ok, as long as we have a few copies out there somewhere then I'm happy, if we manage to save pot-tv a few bucks too then great. Not as much as I was expecting, $1800/month seems reasonable. I'd love to see some stats on show popularity.
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The issue raised about the file naming conventions is a good one. For historical reasons, there isn't a strict naming convention for shows that doesn't really correspond to the show series, title or pot-tv show number. On the media.pot.tv:6969 tracker, you'll see the files have their original filenames, which don't correspond to the show listing and don't tell much about what show it is or where it comes from. I can cross reference them no problem in the database, but that doesn't help as much with shows "in the wild", like on your computer or if they make their way to other trackers.
Yep, this is the first real questionmark. Whatever people find most useful, and we can always expand on them over time. I like the format URL_date_#_name.extension but whatever works. Show names aren't that necessary, but then a simple html index zipped up with show screens is probably a nice way to bundle each release together (and gives us something to base DVD/DivX menus around for those that want them).
How about e.g. pot-tv.net_20050825_#3939.rm
That keeps everything ordered (hey you guys finally got pot.tv good stuff!) and extras like show series and name can be appended later in the same style.
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As far as linking the torrents into their pot-tv show pages, I've tried this with the media.pot.tv tracker. Unfortunately that's not much good if the shows aren't being seeded, and like I mentioned earlier, reliably seeding 3000 shows is tricky.
We're getting ahead of ourselves, let's just try to seed shows optionally, and from the most recent backwards.
Here's where my problem comes in. The latest smi's don't have the rtsp source, so I'm stuck back at show #3436. If there's some way for me to catch up drop me an email. I've got about 189 files to go, but a handful of failures. A definitive copy is my main priority to start.
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I've tried using btlaunchmany, but so far without much success. There is also a new solution called "osprey" (with permaseed), but I haven't managed to get a working install of this yet.
Let's ignore scalability for now. I'll seed to start, or we can just go with a handful of recent shows and try to keep up.
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Ideally the torrents linked to the pot.tv show pages would show the seed/leech activity of each torrent. For this it would be best to have a tracker that stores this activity data in a mysql database, but the one we've set up uses some other data storage. We could scrape the tracker for this info, but it would be much nicer to have direct access to the data. So I'm interested to hear about experiences with other trackers that we can run on our linux boxes.
If something out there doesn't already do it I'll write it, but I'm positive they're out there so I'll contribute some proof of concepts and whatever glue you need. Onto part 492 of my long-winded mult-part update 
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#1072428 - 08/26/05 09:47 AM
Re: Unofficial Pot-TV Bit Torrent Beta Test
[Re: kractor]
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Journeyman
Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 57
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not sure what other people are doing, but myself i'm saving both the torrent files AND the files themselves and plan on making DVDr backups of things as I go.
Forget the torrent files, my tracker is only a temporary example of what we can do. It'll close down within weeks I expect, so I'd just concentrate on the files themselves.
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have a rotating playlist of sorts, seed out x number of shows at a time, and have a "torrent listing" page on the Pot-TV website that shows what eps are currently seeding
I like this, nice unobtrusive way for us to start opening it up to more people from the homepage when we're ready. Because of the archive's size, we want to have several pools going - the latest shows, a best of pool, and a seasonal re-release or cycle that progressively goes through the archive and re-seeds a batch at a time.
The cool thing is, once they've all got .torrents and there's a single copy out there, then WE THE SEEDERS get to choose what is available at any one time. Pot-TV just has to release a show once, and even if they stop seeding after it falls past their threshold then it can and will re-appear at any point in the future if one of us chooses to re-seed the file and reannounce to the tracker that we have a copy to contribute.
At the very least I'll have a copy, but we need a few more hands from people who are willing to stash a copy away and look after it. I've burnt 17 DVDs so far, I'll probably hit about 25 for the archive as it is today. If you're reading this and you're willing to download 100G over the next few months, burn it all to DVD and occasionally re-seed, then I think the community will sustain itself indefinitly, given the right tools.
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#1072429 - 08/26/05 09:53 AM
Re: Unofficial Pot-TV Bit Torrent Beta Test
[Re: niall]
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Veteran
Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1216
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If you're reading this and you're willing to download 100G over the next few months, burn it all to DVD and occasionally re-seed, then I think the community will sustain itself indefinitly, given the right tools.
i've got no problems grabbing the stuff and keeping nice clean archives of it here, also no problems with seeding out to those who need it ... just need the chance to actually get the eps downloaded the first time, and after that i'm more than happy to share a little bandwidth, its not like i even come close to using our entire pipeline here and the wife and i almost never touch even a small percentage of our traffic cap each month.
besides, when we move we're looking into some DSL options that claim to come with "unlimited" bandwidth ... so there's some interesting possibilities if that pans out ... 
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#1072430 - 08/26/05 10:06 AM
Re: Unofficial Pot-TV Bit Torrent Beta Test
[Re: kractor]
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Journeyman
Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 57
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Quote:
Quote:
If you're reading this and you're willing to download 100G over the next few months, burn it all to DVD and occasionally re-seed, then I think the community will sustain itself indefinitly, given the right tools.
i've got no problems grabbing the stuff and keeping nice clean archives of it here, also no problems with seeding out to those who need it
Sweet. Unless someone objects I'm going to go with the pot-tv.net_20050825_#3939.rm format Currently I'm renaming all files that I've downloaded while I get the final batch.
Karlis - what are you comments now? If we go with this naming scheme, could we move towards naming all future shows in the same (or alternate) style? Then go back and rename the rest?  I suspect the torrent hashing ignores filenames, so we should be able to merge seamlessly. I think we should assume that we'll get live stats in mysql later on, there's a lot we can do towards that. I think we'd only need you to seed the most recent shows to get us started - doesn't look like you're seeding anything at the moment? What do you think?
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#1072432 - 08/26/05 09:25 PM
Re: Unofficial Pot-TV Bit Torrent Beta Test
[Re: kractor]
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Journeyman
Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 57
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Quote:
assuming that notices will be posted in this thread here when new eps are available for us to grab / seed?
Absolutely. I'm in the process of renaming files and talking to Karlis, I'll announce all future releases here and on my webpage. But I'm not expecting much until we see what Karlis has to say.
We really need to get the most recent shows torrented as they're released, according to the final naming scheme if possible. Once that's happening automatically then we can catch up on the rest of the archive and rename as we go.
Another thought I had was to torrent up batches of files, say a High Society torrent, a yearly best of torrent etc. There'll be duplication across each pool, but that would help people to grab what they're most interested in (other than the most recent shows). Anyone with a set of files could then package them up into their own batch, announce it and release it via the tracker.
We should move towards integrating a forum with the tracker, or vice versa, so that we're using pot-tv's tracker as our main interface to grab the latest shows and announce our own releases. People could then make requests for shows or batches that they haven't got yet, those who have them could release them as needed.
I'm really impressed with how well these 7 shows are going, we're still seeding fairly well and are having daily peaks of up to 30-40 seeders as each day's batch of leechers comes on board. The graphs say we've transferred 7.15G but my tracker suggests 15.37G, either way for an initial investment of 214.9M (those 7 shows downloaded once from pot-tv) we've generated many gigabytes of traffic at no cost to pot-tv.
If pot-tv becomes a thorough or permanent seeder, and we don't eat into the RealVideo streaming bandwidth by converting viewers over to BitTorrent, then we may actually increase pot-tv's bandwidth usage. What I suggest we do is limit the number of shows that pot-tv seeds, we just need to get it out into the community so that other people can take over. We could even run the whole thing ourselves on our own tracker if each show could be released to myself or someone else via FTP, SSH, a password protected website, or even email. That limits pot-tv's cost of this to a single download per show, so our focus could then be on converting people away from streaming and onto BitTorrent.
Also I made an archive of Richard Cowan's 420 Marijuana News audio show from a few years back, all in their original mp3, so I want to get this out there too. If anyone else has any rare footage, e.g. MiniDV coverage of Marc's arrests and interviews over the years, rallies around the world, even stuff pot-tv rejected or couldn't use - it could all go onto BitTorrent so it's not lost. Someone, somewhere may be able to make use of it.
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#1072433 - 08/26/05 09:29 PM
Re: Unofficial Pot-TV Bit Torrent Beta Test
[Re: niall]
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Veteran
Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1216
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Quote:
Also I made an archive of Richard Cowan's 420 Marijuana News audio show from a few years back, all in their original mp3, so I want to get this out there too. If anyone else has any rare footage, e.g. MiniDV coverage of Marc's arrests and interviews over the years, rallies around the world, even stuff pot-tv rejected or couldn't use - it could all go onto BitTorrent so it's not lost. Someone, somewhere may be able to make use of it.
well, if there's anything you'd like to pass along i'd be more than happy to grab it and burn it off onto DVDr backups. i'm sitting here staring at a 200 pack of media that i've barely made a dent in, and i'd certainly be willing to put a list of what i have up online somewhere so that people could drop me a note or something if i had anything they needed. glad to help distribute things as best i can until the torrent situation gets cleared up completely ...
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