Quote:

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I have no idea what you are trying to say here, sorry. In fact, the logic in the rest of your post makes little sense to me as well. Are you trying to say steam and friction produced the molten steal? Good luck with that.

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The molten metal that conspiracy theorists point to are a glowing flow coming from the south tower window and molten steel found under ground zero.

They suggest the above glow is steel which is being cut by a thermite cutter charge reaction. They show photos of a thermite reaction burning a hole downward through a metal plate. Let's forget for a moment that thermite doesn't explode so the claims of hearing explosions become meaningless. The argument that there was thermite and explosives seems to be rationalization of this dilemma. Why would they use thermite which cuts steel without announcing it, then switch to explosives? To tip people off? No theory exist to explain this but the faithful simply say "We're still working on it".
Note the color of the substance as it cools and solidifies toward the end of its journey. Molten steel would turn almost black. One thing it's not, and that's black.

Jones writes: "This is a point worth emphasizing: aluminum has low emissivity and high reflectivity, so that in daylight conditions molten aluminum will appear silvery-gray"

I think at a cooler temperature, he's right.

What's telling about this photo isn't that it's proof of the substance being aluminum, It's that it's a zoom and crop of the photo from Jones own paper. (Time for him to change yet another one of his photos.) Below is a screenshot from National Geographic's "Inside 911".

The droplets on the outside of the center of the fall seem to be the color of aluminum siding to me.. As I said, the evidence points to it being aluminum.

"
I have no idea what you are trying to say here, sorry. In fact, the logic in the rest of your post makes little sense to me as well. Are you trying to say steam and friction produced the molten steal? Good luck with that."

All I did was post an exercpt from the report on the metal analysis that said Sulfer had been discovered in the oxidized steel pulled from the rubble. That was jumped on by AJ Loose Change Perfesser what`s his name and many others as proof that Thermite was used to cut /weaken the buildings. This is not proof. Nobody wants to pay the power bill to keep that much steel glowing for that long. The study revealed a very unusual form of heat oxidation.

Another proof positive statement about thermite was the photo of a fireman standing in the rubble with a column that had been cut on an angle. That column appears to have been cut with either a welder , or an oxyacetalene torch. The angle cut was to ensure that the freed steel would travel away from the guy doing the cutting. It`s similar to a tree feller using his saw to direct the direction a tree will fall.

We all have been told the buildings were in free fall. I know for a fact this is not true because the debris hit the ground far ahead of the collapsing buildings. It`s right in front of your face if you watch.There are simply too many fabrications involved in the 9/11 theory , and too much meandering about in the dark looking for filthy Jews and Nazis to make anything the Left has to say credible. Even Alex Jones openly admits the internet market for his conspiracy theories is small. Is it any wonder? I bet it`s big enough to line Alex`s pockets

Everytime the Left calls Bush a Nazi , the voice of Joseph Stalin is doing the name calling. It`s a turnoff for the vast majority ; even amongst people who do not particularly care for the president. At least the University of California Santa Barbara has the good sense to attempt some damage control.Shit like that is what got Georgie elected in the first place .
I`m open to a comprehensive thorough investigation of the events of 9/11 ; it sure looks to me like a bunch of maniacs have shut the door of reason in that direction. Even our Democrat opposition Party members appear shredded. Not!!! If anything , they`ll fort up with moderate conservatives ; if for no other reason than to distance themselves from their constituents. web page

UCSB got it wrong. It makes nonsense when conservatives call Liberals Nazis. All they have to do now is let Liberals call them Nazis , and independents begin to think the Liberals should be voted against.It`s not working. and the Left does not see it. An electoral college win for another Republican?

Dear twist a spliff ; what I am saying in reality is not much of this thread makes much difference anymore.
Ask the Democrats........................................
.....Let the Warantless Wiretapping Resume_______________
It's official: The Protect America Act is on it's way to the president's desk and, once it arrives, you can be sure it will be signed promptly so the administration can resume its warantless eavesdropping program (legally this time). Last night 41 House Democrats sided with their Republican colleagues to pass the measure, greenlighted by the Senate on Friday, which revises the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), allowing the NSA to intercept foreign communications without obtaining a court order. Troubling to civil libertarians and the House Democrats who voted against the legislation, is the wording in the bill, which seems just vague enough that U.S. citizens and domestic communications could still be swept up in the surveillance net, which was the whole problem with the first incarnation of the administration’s warrantless wiretapping program. According to the bill, electronic intercepts involving people "reasonably believed to be outside the United States" are fair game. The question is what constitutes "reasonable belief" and can the intel community be counted on to adhere to this standard, particularly after the FBI's well publicized abuses of its FISA authority.

Another question that's worth asking is why the Democratic leadership—Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid in particular—allowed their caucus to be rushed into action on this bill, bowing to pressure from the White House and congressional Republicans, who have been agitating for a FISA fix.

As recently as three weeks ago, it was my understanding that the Democrats were going to take up FISA in the fall, after Congress returned from the August recess. Silvestre Reyes, chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, said as much during a hearing I attended in late July that explored the implications of the recent National Intelligence Estimate on Al Qaeda. After the committee's ranking member Pete Hoekstra spent the better part of his opening statement lambasting the Democrats for their inaction on FISA ("we have over a week before Congress goes on recess; Al Qaeda is not going to take a break"), Reyes had this to say:


We have learned many things post-9/11, one of which has been that as we give our military and law enforcement agencies every conceivable tool that we can in order to protect us, we also have to be mindful that we want to—we don't want to have the terrorists succeed by compromising the rights of our—of our American citizens. I think that's a basic and fundamental responsibility of the Congress. I say that because when we provided the legislation, the Patriot Act, we provided some key tools that now we have found have been used inappropriately. One example was the national security letters that were utilized by the FBI.


I think it's important that we do our business in a very careful and orchestrated, regular way, and I think it's vitally important that all of us understand that in terms of addressing whatever changes need to be made under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, as my ranking member mentioned, we want to do that. We want to give and make the adjustments that are necessary, but we also want to be careful doing that. So over the course of the last month, month and a half, we've been having hearings to address that very issue. We've been trying to understand exactly what issues and what problems those that have had to work with FISA have had to address as they went about their business.


At some point in the fall, we will look at whatever legislative fixes need to be made. A lot I think depends on information that you give us about the threat. And certainly the NIE is one issue that we want to be very careful in evaluating. But I also think that we don't want to be stampeded to make changes that ultimately may—we may have to change because we didn't do it carefully and in a regular way.

Sounds reasonable enough. In the end, however, careful consideration went out the window and Reyes and his Democratic colleagues were indeed stampeded into action on a bill that Nancy Pelosi said yesterday “does violence to the Constitution.” (For the record, Reyes and Pelosi were among the 183 members of Congress who voted against the FISA legislation.) The Democrats’ haste on FISA seems to have more to do with politics than with crafting sound policy. The New York Times notes today that if the bill had stalled, “that would have left Democratic lawmakers, long anxious about appearing weak on national security issues, facing an August spent fending off charges from Republicans that they had left Americans exposed to threats.” The Washington Post reports “that Democrats facing reelection next year in conservative districts helped propel the bill to a quick approval. Adding to the pressures they felt were recent intelligence reports about threatening new al-Qaeda activity in Pakistan and the disclosure by House Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) of a secret court ruling earlier this year that complicated the wiretapping of purely foreign communications that happen to pass through a communications node on U.S. soil.”

Now, the Democrats can rest easily over the August recess, knowing that they haven’t left themselves vulnerable to political attacks. The rest of us can worry about whether the NSA is using its enhanced surveillance authority to spy on Americans. Inever have gotten in trouble with the Feds. I seriously doubt anyone there remembers me.
Now that`s freee!

Let`s see what the Senate has to say. Who knows? Bush might head for the Supreme court . If your .gov can conscript you , they can probably spy on USA. Wtf would Uncle Sam want with me? He`s gota be hoping I do not live to collect Social Security. Dath keeps SS
ssolvent

Ps If Senate Democrats cave in also , that means terrorism stops here.

PPS I thought Nancy Pelosi was going to impeachfuzz Bush.
Looks like she`s getting her`s shaved.

"I agree Ben. 9/11 gave the administration the blank check the needed to "protect" everybody, and now they have all the pieces in place for martial law and a fascist dictatorship."

There is also an overlooked principal you are neglecting. US citizens with integrity would say ,"The people have spoken" , in a situation like this. Our governments have been eavesdropping on US for a very long time. Corporate espionage is even more pervasive than the .gov.

Believe it or not , CANUSEU are in a state of war ; united against a growing madness.When the people speak , I quit bitching and go back to living a quiet , exciting life Not even my governments can prevent me from doing that

Besides ; I`ve heard the dictatorship saw too many times. If you are overactive in politics , that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that you harbor political ambitions , or you are trying to get rich + - = Get Fuzzy for me?

9/11/? That`s tunnel vision. In case you have not been paying attention , bombs have gone off in a lot of places since 9/11. The boys on the Hill are privvy to a lot of information that would probably scare US even more than the rampant speculation too many are currently addicted to. Democrats are forting up. That means Joe Lieberman made a wise political choice to run Independent and win his seat. Majority rule is Democracy.

Dude;slag produced by a cutting torch has a black shell allover it. Only after you grind it off to expose the steel does it twinkle. If you leave slag on , the metal just goes to rust.When you melt steel , the alloys burn.The beam was cut with a hand held Thermate torch. They are powerful , and faster than Oxyacetylene torches. They still leave slag behind. Steel slag web page Iron thermite slag Cooled steel slag Slag is deconstituted metal and impurities. Note the thermite slag looks like Obsidian. Let me also remind you that if that column had been cut befor the collapse , I very seriously doubt that cut would appear that fresh.

To Twistaspliff:

Thanks again for the rational scientific point of view, Twist. What bothers me most is not that the Bushies argue that 9/11 wasn't an inside job and present counter-arguments, it's that they hardly ever argue the US is NOT a fascist state and - if they do argue at all, it's with no-counter evidence or argument. Just "America is free and will always be so - my government tells me so so it must be true."



"There is also an overlooked principal you are neglecting. US citizens with integrity would say ,"The people have spoken" , in a situation like this."

Except for RFK Jr:

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen


The Iraqi weapons inspectors:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Ritter


And about 70% of the population:

http://ubikcan.wordpress.com/2007/07/06/bushs-popularity-in-graph-form/

In Sweden, every decision is ratified by the people. That's REAL democracy.

According to you, once Americans have voted, they shouldn't even take part in opinion polls ... for after all, they have spoken once.

People can be fooled by lies and a media monopolized by the liars - that's why every decision should be allowed to be revisited - especially the decision to go to war, which requires the ultimate sacrifice on the part of the voters.









"Our governments have been eavesdropping on US for a very long time. Corporate espionage is even more pervasive than the .gov."


That doesn't make it right.

When you read the book "1984" (I'm assuming you have) who did you figure was the bad guy ... Winston Smith, or "Big Brother". Most people would say "Big Brother" ... except for maybe a few people who get a check from Big Brother.





"Believe it or not , CANUSEU are in a state of war ; united against a growing madness."

That would be CANUSEU Inc., they've been organizing a war-make-work since Standard Oil got married to IG Farben in 1927.

www.cannabisculture.com/news/gwbayer
(69) Yergin, Daniel, "The Prize - The Epic Quest for Oil, Money and Power," 1992, Touchstone, p. 330




"When the people speak , I quit bitching and go back to living a quiet , exciting life"

If you're referring to those stolen elections, I would direct you to RFK's Rolling Stone article:

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen


You might try to argue that wartime is special, and people should not use their rights during that time. Here's a video for you watch before you try and make that argument:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3849732310656672791&q=mslaw&hl=en



"Not even my governments can prevent me from doing that"

Right. And your government can't prevent you from bleating "Two legs bad, four legs good", although god knows why you would want to in the first place.

It CAN, however, stop you from complaining:

http://www.projectcensored.org/

http://www.freeexpression.org/patriot.htm


Strange that you would point out how free you are to shup up but fail to point out how not-free you are to complain. How Orwellian that is.





"Besides ; I`ve heard the dictatorship saw too many times. If you are overactive in politics , that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that you harbor political ambitions , or you are trying to get rich + - = Get Fuzzy for me?"

It's not that Bush and Cheney are "overactive", they're protofascist. Everything they do is evil and dictatorial ... they even admit to it:

GOV. GEORGE W. BUSH (R-TX), PRESIDENT-ELECT: "I told all four that there were going to be some times where we don't agree with each other. But that's OK. If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0012/18/nd.01.html


Cheney said he's effective working behind the scenes and doesn't believe voters will choose the next president based on running mates. "Am I the evil genius in the corner that nobody ever sees come out of his hole?" he said. "It's a nice way to operate, actually."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/executive/president/2004-01-19-cheney-weapons_x.htm


"9/11/? That`s tunnel vision. In case you have not been paying attention , bombs have gone off in a lot of places since 9/11."

So you admit it was an inside job? Or you can explain the buidings falling at the speed of gravity in a vacuum? You don't seem to understand the ramifications of not being able to do either.






"The boys on the Hill are privvy to a lot of information that would probably scare US even more than the rampant speculation too many are currently addicted to."

I've studied the history of Bayer and Exxon starting world wars for profit for the last 80 years ... I can handle any truth that may be out there today.




"Democrats are forting up. That means Joe Lieberman made a wise political choice to run Independent and win his seat. Majority rule is Democracy."

Democracy is "rule of the people" - if the people figure out a way to rule better than picking from two corporate dependent media approved chickenshits in a place where they don't properly count the votes, they'll switch over to a less fake form of democracy. That might happen sooner than later.

Quote:

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Prior to the US invasion of Iraq in March, 2003, Ritter repeatedly stated that Iraq possessed no significant weapons of mass destruction (WMDs).

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cough....cough..BULL SHIT..cough.cough!


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