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Crowded and too tall

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The plan is to grow a few of each of the varieties of seed I purchased last fall, just to see what they want to do - how tall they want to be, how bushy, how heavily they need to feed, etc. The first two up are 3x ea of Thai Lights and African Buzz. 1x male and 2x female of each sprouted. There are two phenotypes of each variety, three of them shouldn't be grown natueally in 6'6"...

DSC_1181-640.JPG.f520a94365543c2fd2d6d5b3c6423412.JPG

...and the underside...

DSC_1182-640.JPG.0c09a5f808bfc615df47eb585cb0c601.JPG

 

It has been 4 weeks since the lights were turned to 13 hrs of night. Both Thai Lights have had the main stem bent; left-rear wanted to flower at 4', front-right at 3'. The African Buzz in the right-rear should have had it's stem bent, and is the only one which stretched significantly when the light cycle changed in spite of appearing to be committed to alternate phyllotaxy. The Thai Light fooled me more though - the breeder's website said, `up to 60g per plant', 600g is probably more accurate!

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By my figuration you have the males and females in together.  Am I incorrect?

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9 hours ago, Squilly said:

By my figuration you have the males and females in together.  Am I incorrect?

That's just the 4 females, the 2 small containers near the left vent are San Pedro cactus.

 

The male Thai Lights is short'n'bushy (or was, until I ran out of room in the tent and put it front of a window), the male African Buzz is very tall and sparse.

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So at this point, for me, it would be irresistible to create some seed.  Using a fine paintbrush you can fertilize single flowers to create some seed on an otherwise seedless plant.  Best of both worlds.  Good luck whatever you do.

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Tempting, but not irresistible, yet.

 

I'll keep the male Thai Lights around because it is short'n'bushy with only moderately wide leaf blades. The African Buzz females will need to distinguish themselves somehow (taste or potency) for the male to last longer than they do though - it is too tall and skinny and they are too much of a WLD variety for my liking, also not a lot of flowers or visible trichomes compared to the Thai Lights at this point.

 

There was an Amnesia autoflower started at the same time - it got to 34" (billed as up to 48") and only produced 67g, but it didn't take up much room (could have fit 25 of them in this 5'x5' tent) or require much effort. The previous two autoflowers (Cheese and Sweet Tooth) also reached ~3' and produced >90g each. Taste and potency on all three is good enough for the few other who've tried them to note one or the other.

 

With 6 more named varieties and 3 samples of Licensed Producer bag seed (who knows what they will grow into) to test, but only 3 autoflower seeds, I'm thinking any breeding experiments I do will be aimed towards producing more autoflowers.

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On 6/9/2017 at 9:26 PM, Unregistered said:

It has been 4 weeks since the lights were turned to 13 hrs of night

 

So this is where you hide all the good stuff, how long before you can topple these beauties, or is it a case of wait and see with the unknown genetics. Hopefully they are not going to stretch any more or your going to run out of height room.

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Posted (edited)

The lights were turned on 2017-05-07, they took 1.5-2 weeks to commit to flowering; African Buzz breeder says 10 weeks, Thai Lights says 9-11 weeks. So, about another month to go unless they are ready sooner, or later.

 

This is what they look like today...

DSC_1773-2000.jpg

 

Here is a better shot of the short'n'bushy African Buzz (front-left in the pic above)...

DSC_1771-2000.jpg

...the hole is from...

DSC_1796-2000crop.jpg

...:WTF:

I'm guessing Bud Mold. Oh well, shit happens. I just hope I'm not fooling myself by thinking I only need to up the circulation during the dark period to keep it down. On the bright side, it is a new experience and it did force me to put the macro lens onto the camera.

 

These two are from just below the mold excision on the same African Buzz. I had a couple growths like this turn up on another plant not long after it moved from T5HO to CMH lighting - along with sap oozing from leaves, I figure it was kinda like hooking a fire hydrant up to a system designed around a garden hose. First thought it was male flowers, but that wasn't the case then.

DSC_1788-2000crop.jpg

DSC_1789-2000.jpg

 

This is one of the lowest branches on the smaller Thai Lights and sits about 28" from one lamp. It is all but buried and if this grow wasn't aimed at seeing what these plants want to do I'd have removed it when I turned them to flowering...

DSC_1795-land2000crop.jpg

Edited by Unregistered
Couldn't insert images after the 3rd with the original post. Editing seems to have worked.
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11 hours ago, Shadey said:

Hopefully they are not going to stretch any more or your going to run out of height room.

I didn't get much stretch, just the one plant. If you let them grow until the phyllotaxy switches to alternate they don't do any crazy lengthening. IME.

 

The one that did that is also the one which started life upside down and naturally split it's main stem - so it has been weird from the start - it is also really leafy and is not filling out like its shorter sister. Here is a shot of the 2nd main stem...

DSC_1783-2000.jpg

..this is the bud in the center of the first pic in the previous post.

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I flipped mine on May 1 and they still don't have many cloudy trichs but some amber showing up so they are all getting the chop as quick as I can get them done.  4 different strains to and all finishing around the same time when I was hoping for a staggered harvest.

 

Looks like you won't be running out of smoke real quick once those are done.  Got some nice phat colas in there.  Better than the ones I got this time so it's back to DWC for me soon.

 

Bud rot sux.  Had that in one bud once and tossed a bag over it then chopped the top off the plant and got it out of there.  Luckily no more got it.

 

:peace:

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36 minutes ago, LabRat said:

I flipped mine on May 1 and they still don't have many cloudy trichs but some amber showing up so they are all getting the chop as quick as I can get them done.  4 different strains to and all finishing around the same time when I was hoping for a staggered harvest.

...so, rip the band-aid off instead of drawing out the pain. just think of the extra free time you'll have now to recuperate from the marathon.

 

36 minutes ago, LabRat said:

Looks like you won't be running out of smoke real quick once those are done.  Got some nice phat colas in there.  Better than the ones I got this time so it's back to DWC for me soon.

They always look bigger in pictures.

 

36 minutes ago, LabRat said:

Bud rot sux.  Had that in one bud once and tossed a bag over it then chopped the top off the plant and got it out of there.  Luckily no more got it.

Looks like it started in a bud where it was tight against the stem, and that is the corner of the tent which gets the poorest circulation. So, hopefully the conditions for it haven't been present throughout the entire tent.

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6 hours ago, Unregistered said:

They always look bigger in pictures

They say the camera adds ten pounds lol.

 

11 hours ago, Unregistered said:

I didn't get much stretch, just the one plant. If you let them grow until the phyllotaxy switches to alternate they don't do any crazy lengthening. IME.

 

Thats good to know, one of my concerns not knowing the genetics of mine is what height to flip at, to avoid them going through the roof lol. Why I only used the 5 gal pot to try and control them a bit more, after reading you get a foot in height per gal of pot.

11 hours ago, Unregistered said:

This is what they look like today...

 

They are looking very nice, I hope mine do as well, but I will be happy to get anything usable, first time round.

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9 hours ago, Shadey said:

Thats good to know, one of my concerns not knowing the genetics of mine is what height to flip at, to avoid them going through the roof lol. Why I only used the 5 gal pot to try and control them a bit more, after reading you get a foot in height per gal of pot.

I'd take that with a grain of salt, or maybe it should be, `allow a gal per foot'. You can grow large plants in small containers, but you end up needing to water and feed constantly, which opens the door to other problems.

 

9 hours ago, Shadey said:

They are looking very nice, I hope mine do as well, but I will be happy to get anything usable, first time round.

Thanks, I hope you do better because I need to water and feed the two largest constantly (2.5 and 3 gal containers).

 

Just be patient with yours, give them enough food to keep them from turning yellow and they will do their thing. Don't worry about any special recipies to boost yield or potency at this point in the adventure - you'll have no way of knowing if they are doing anything until you know what "normal" is anyways, eh.

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Here is why you really don't want to do a grow like this...

DSC_3200-3000.jpg

...it doesn't get much floppier than this. :D

 

The African Buzz which was hit with mold is carrying on...

DSC_3193-2000.jpg

...the flat-top buds are those which had the purple growths in an earlier post. The tip has died and they've started branching...

DSC_3165-3000.jpg

All but a few branches have done that, mostly those stuck in the corner, less direct light is the only difference between them and the rest...

DSC_3166-2000.jpg

 

I'm having some trouble getting good shots of the buds because my hair starts sizzling if I get right into the tent at that height - another reason not to grow so close to the lights. :D I did manage to get a decent one of a mid level branch's growing tip on the Thai Lights which I'm assuming is showing more of the Northern Lights heritage...

DSC_3214-2000.jpg

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1 hour ago, Unregistered said:

Here is why you really don't want to do a grow like this...

Thats a big jungle you have their, all sorts of things could be lurking in it. :gun:5962dcd836822_unregisterdgrowjapanesesoldier.thumb.jpg.1cbd2dadabd3fb3f031b4822ee6d3701.jpg

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5 hours ago, Shadey said:

Thats a big jungle you have their, all sorts of things could be lurking in it. :gun:

Yup, and nothing lurking. I can get in from below the canopy easily enough to keep it clean.

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4 hours ago, Unregistered said:

nothing lurking

Are you sure, look again :)

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5 hours ago, Shadey said:

Are you sure, look again :)

 

It is more mold that I'm most concerned with.

 

I ended up tossing out a 4' mature Kush and 4 nice 2' clones last winter because of spider mites - that's what you get for having plants out on the patio ;) -  with this grow having the potential to be interesting from the start I made a little extra effort to control stuff I knew about.

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3 minutes ago, Unregistered said:

It is more mold that I'm most concerned with.

 

So the 2 Japanese soldiers who dont know ww2 is over, dont bother you lol.

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@Unregistered

Sorry if you think I am being an arse, keeping on about your jungle,I was trying to be subtle lol. I edited your pic and added 2 Japanese soldiers to it for a laugh. I had photo shop open, to edit a customers bike pic, so he could see what the artwork would look like, and I was bored so I thought I would mess with it a bit.

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Gottcha... nice. I've been keeping an eye out for lurkers but that kind wasn't even close to being on my radar. haha :)

 

Here is a shot of the shorter African Buzz pulled out of the tent...

DSC_3262-crop2000.jpg

...soil to tip is 51". With it out you can get a little better view of the others...

DSC_3261-3000.jpg

A closeup of the branch bottom, center in the pic above...

DSC_3259-crop2000.jpg

...that's about a 10" length of stem; the tip is ~31" from the lamp and the lowest bud ~36" away.

 

Here are a couple pics of getting too close to the sun. The first is a branch whose tip flopped into the kill-zone 3-4 hours before lights out and wasn't noticed for 3 hours after lights on, so, 6-7 hours of ~6" from the lamp...

DSC_3232-3000.jpg

...and this one has been growing right at the edge of the kill-zone...

DSC_3235-2000.jpg

...the tip fried and I shifted things a bit, but it is still on the edge and the branch (foxtail if you like) growing away from you is showing some signs of slow frying. I'm thinking of it as a kill-zone because it appears to be just too much radiant energy.

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11 hours ago, Unregistered said:

Here is a shot of the shorter African Buzz pulled out of the tent...

Thats about the height I want mine to finish at, looks good.

 

11 hours ago, Unregistered said:

The first is a branch whose tip flopped into the kill-zone 3-4 hours before lights out and wasn't noticed for 3 hours after lights on, so, 6-7 hours of ~6" from the lamp...

At least you wouldnt have to decarb it  :)  something I dont have to worry about with LED heat. How long before the rest are ready do you think. I flipped mine last night, I thought I would ease them in by reducing the light 2 hours every day, not sure if it will make any difference over that short space of time but it cant hurt.

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4 hours ago, Shadey said:

How long before the rest are ready do you think.

 

The Thai Lights are both getting close to 100% cloudy trichomes on branches getting good light, so they can start being taken down now. The shorter African Buzz is looking like it has a few weeks to go; the tall one is developing branches at different rates and the least mature racemes are a little behind its shorter sister's - when the Thai Lights are removed I expect the African Buzz to pick up the pace a bit, simply because they will get a bit more light.

 

This pic, a close-up of the bottom-right corner of the broad-view image above, show the difference light level can have...

DSC_3237-2000.jpg

...the bud in the center and its fan leaves (along the left side), and the tip of the branch at the top, have been recieving about as much light as the close-up of the branch in the previous post; the still green stuff is even more shaded.

 

4 hours ago, Shadey said:

I thought I would ease them in by reducing the light 2 hours every day, not sure if it will make any difference over that short space of time but it cant hurt.

 

I've read a couple posts claiming that it just prolongs the process, no bigger yield or nicer looking buds. It sounds interesting enough to try but I'm holding off trying until I have a more capable controller.

 

I have compared 12/12 to 11/13 photoperiods, and hit plants with 9/15 when they were still putting out a lot of new leaf 2-weeks after flipping them. Giving a longer dark period supposedly cuts into yields. I dunno about that, but think it results in a bit less leafy buds and I hate leafy buds...

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3 hours ago, Unregistered said:

I've read a couple posts claiming that it just prolongs the process, no bigger yield or nicer looking buds.

Well I wont be putting them in for a beauty contest ,so I will stickem on 12/12 tonight, I was thinking this morning If can I afford to let them grow for longer, the way they are going now. One of them is averaging 3/4 of an inch a day atm, it has a couple of leaves yellowing half way up but the rest look fine. Probably because there is more light now 2 are out in my home made tent. I lowered the light a bit as well in the hope it will slow them down.

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17 hours ago, Unregistered said:

I have compared 12/12 to 11/13 photoperiods, and hit plants with 9/15 when they were still putting out a lot of new leaf 2-weeks after flipping them. Giving a longer dark period supposedly cuts into yields. I dunno about that, but think it results in a bit less leafy buds and I hate leafy buds...

Just throwin this out there...

In MJ Botany, RC Clarke references research from the '70s that shows almost twice as much THC is produced under 12/12 as compared to a 10/14 photoperiod, which was being tested as a way to speed up finishing.  The trials started the bud cycle under 12/12 and approximately 2 weeks before the projected harvest, the cycle was flipped to 10/14.  The 10/14 trials did finish earlier than the 12/12 controls by a few days to a week, with lighter yields and lower THC content.

There was a discussion here a loooong time ago, the title of the thread was 'photoperiod on planet ito'.  In an effort to boost yield the grower would at some point during 12/12 (I think around the 4-5 week mark), flip the cycle to 24/7 for 3 days, then go back to 12/12.  As I remember, he did end up with somewhat heavier harvests.

 

What RC Clarke wrote seems a pretty good reason not to stray from 12/12.  Use techniques other than changing the light cycle to boost yield (imo), altering it just sends the plant confusing cues. 

 

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5 hours ago, frmrgrl said:

Just throwin this out there...

Thanks!

 

We always need more data...

 

Should the conclusion be that 12/12 produces twice as much THC, or that dropping the amount of light received during the last couple weeks by almost 20% decreases THC production dramatically. Maybe there is a minimum amount of light (moles of photons during the light period) needed for proper cannabinoid production and they dropped below it when they changed the photoperiod (no point producing cannabinoids if there is barely enough energy to produce the flowers and seeds they protect, eh); maybe a steady 11/13 or 10/14 would produce better results although with longer flowering time, but since they were trying to speed things up the experiment couldn't see that; etc.

 

...so much of the common-wisdom on the 'net ends up boiling down to that sort of thing. We are all really just guessing.

 

All I know for sure is that 14 or 15 hour of dark appeared to kick relectant plants into full-bloom (they'd go back to 12 or 13 hrs dark after a week or so), and that 13 hrs seems to be a nice compromise between growth and the fullness of the bloom - with seed that probably came from SE Asia (12/12 -> 11/13 during flowering), grown under T12's.

 

Most of the seed I purchased claims Thai heritage, mostly because I figured that would give me the best chance of translating what I think I've learnt to a new grow environment.

 

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