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Co2 - Burner vs. Tank


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#1 Buddha

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 02:57 PM

I have recently started supplementing my grow room with Co2.

At present I have not finished a crop with the new enriched environment, but have noticed a great improvement in the plants themselves. They look stronger, healthier and bigger then ever before. I am using a borrowed tank set up from a very good friend, to help me decide whether using Co2 was a good thing or not. I'm thinking, I was a fool for not have done this a long time ago.

I am going to continue the use of Co2 from now on, my only question now is to use a tank set up or a burner.

I know the tank set up produces no heat or Moisture, and the burner produces heat, plus moisture(humidity). I have no issues with either of these(heat or humidity) as I am on top of both these potential problems. I don't like the fact of dragging a tank in and out of my place, it razes questions. The burner runs on propane, so less obvious to the neighbors as everyone has a propane tank for a BBQ.

What I need is information on cost, the cost of a burner vs. a tank.

Like I said I am running a tank now and am finding it quite pricy. I am enriching the room to 1000ppm and if I need to enrich to a higher ppm, the cost will also raise(Co2 ppm is set to Salts ppm(food)...as salts are razed so is Co2 and cost). I know a good quality burner is fairly expensive, but it would be a one time cost, and I could raise my ppm at anytime without the worry of cost(propane is cheap).

I sure could use some experienced growers that use Co2 to give me a few facts in regards to cost, to help with my decision.

Thanks in advance.


Peace...Buddhasmiletoke

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"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"-Albert Einstein

#2 Pulverizer

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 07:55 AM

sounds like you have all the variables yourself there.... so when you get your yeild do a cost analyst to see if the added $$ in tanks is still profitable with the added yield.

I don't know if you have a regulator system set-up with your tank, but they exist out there to set the exact desired ppm (1400 or so) to help with waste....

with the burner, it's a little harder to set-up for ppm, but seeing as it adds heat, it can be rigged to a thermostat (hot/cold one) so that when the burner is on, the ventilation is off. Once the temp hits 80F (or your setting) then it turns off the burner and on the ventilation.

That is what I used to do because yes, propane is just that much easier to get away with in your neighbourhood....but hey, pure CO2 is best, but most expensive.... so do your math.

But if you already own 1/2 the CO2 system from tank, wouldn't it make more sense to finish that job?

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#3 Buddha

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 10:45 AM

I don't own anything at this point, it is all borrowed, that is why I'm asking for a comparison.

Whether you have used a tank system or a burner. I would like to learn the cost of each process. I am leaning towards the burner system, because both systems need a Co2 monitor and other equipment that almost cost the same. The biggest concern I have is the after costs(Refills).

This is how I see it.

Burner System:

Co2 Monitor...$850.00
Co2 Burner....$950.00
Propane tank..$30.00

Total.........$1830.00

Tank System:

Co2 Monitor...$850.00
Regulator,
Flow Meter,
and
Cellinode.....$500.00
Tanks/2 @...$240.00

Total.........$1590.00

The difference between the two systems is a few hundred dollars. Which is eaten up in the in the refills. Propane cost $20.00 to fill a 20lb tank and Co2 cost $40.00 to fill a 20lb tank. It won't take long to eat up the saved cost between the two systems, especially when you bump the PPM's up for the food intake and Co2 as the plants mature.

It just makes more sense to use a burner, if heat and moisture issues are under control. Not to mention the added fact that a propane tank is a much more acceptable item to pack into your place.

Wow...Thanks everyone, I think I just convinced myself to go with the burner... pothead

Peace...Buddhasmiletoke



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#4 GrowBCBud

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 07:48 PM

Some advice:

CO2 Burners are great when you need heat in the grow area. Most often indoors the lights will provide enough heat for CO2 to be effective.

If you are using a CO2 Burner make sure it has an electroinic igniter or pilot light, burners with manual pilot lights tend to be unreliable.

CO2 works best when at 1500PPM (parts per million) and the room temp should be 90 Degrees Farenhieght / 30 degress Celcius. There is little benefit using CO2 in a room less than 90 degrees F. Your average room temp with exhaust fans on should be 80 degrees F, once the CO2 cycle starts the room temp will jump to 90 degrees F. The C02 cycle usually lasts 45min, then exhaust fans resume operation.. 6 CO2 cycles every 12 hours.

Most growers make the mistake of not shutting down exaust fans which makes it difficult to maintain 1500PPM.

I recommend using a bottled CO2 system with regulator and solenoid, that way you can maintain the temp of your grow room as well as maintaining 1500PPM.

**Buddy needs to buy an ad**



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#5 doctor venkman

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 05:34 PM

Why not go with the natural gas unit. Plumb it into the house and no more bottles plus a regular bill cycle. We have gas bill average here, so they spread the winter bill over the summer. The monthly bill increase would hardly be noticeable.

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#6 Pulverizer

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 11:28 AM

Quote "urner System:

Co2 Monitor...$850.00
Co2 Burner....$950.00
Propane tank..$30.00

Total.........$1830.00"

Be a little creative with the "monitor" and just replace it with a $60 heat/cooling thermostat. Put burner into the heat, put ventilation in the cooling. Leave ocsolating fans on but let the in/out turn off while burners on. Set temp to 80F. I did this for an 8 light room with fantastic ventilation. Basially, in the winter months i was bringing in freezing cold outdoor air at a 2500cfm rate. So the room would turn off the Co2 for about 10mins and cool down, then it would switch back to the burner and turn off the fans for about 25mins and repeat....

just as effective, far less expensive....

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#7 Buddha

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 11:40 PM


I bought a Matador Co2 monitor for $800.00 tax included. This is a locally produced monitor and comes with a year warranty(parts and labor). Every year you send it in for recalibration and that is warranted for a year. Nothing but raves on the Matador monitor.

I bought a 6 burner Blue Ox Co2 propane burner(6 burners is over kill for my needs, but the price was right), completely CSA approved, and warranted for a year(parts and labor). This burner can be sent in, cleaned and inspected for $80.00 after the warranty is up and your good for another year. I paid $750.00 tax included.

Propane tank...I just used one of the half dozen kicking around the place.

So for $1550.00 tax included, I'm producing all the Co2 a guy will ever need, (and brand new equipment). It was a little pricy to start, but I figure it will pay for it's self in a little over a year. I would have spent the $1500.00 that I spent on the burner system, in refills with the Co2 tank and reg system, within the same period of time.

As for heat issues as I said they are of no worry, I use AC to cool the room, and light tubes to cool the lights. The room is totally sealed with minimal supply and exhaust air allowed.

Thanks everyone for sharing...I think this is a good subject and should be discussed more.
Keep sharing and educating.
Peace...Buddhasmiletoke

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"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"-Albert Einstein