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Pro-mix hp or bx.....do you "really" have to ph?


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38 replies to this topic

#1 Musky17

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 07:57 AM

Growing in promix hp or bx for the last three years. 1000w hps, good temps and humidity and air circulation. 2 grows ago I ran into trouble with plants getting burned turning yellow into 32 weeks of bloom...looking fatigued. looked like nute burn over watering etc. so I started chasing the problem. Never before did I ph...having being explained to me that if you change your soil every grow the dolomitic lime will bring it into "range". after the problems, I went out and bought a ph tester and found my water was at 7.9 before nutes. after adding nutes it went to the 6.5 range...seemed ok, let the dolomitic lime do it's thing. taking run-off readings and adjusting the ph accordingly so the runoff measured 6.3- optimium in my eyes. Still no improvement. posted pics here and asked for help. Every response was different...ph, over watering, nute lockout, nute burn etc. all good suggestions I might add. thx. what I believe is the problem is fungus gnts and or thrips in the soil. they are eating the roots and the plant cannot take up the neccessary nutrients to be healthy...any comments on this or similiar problems would be appreciated. Do you have to play with the ph in promix???? another topic in promix is...do you wait for it to dry riiight out so it is light as an unwatered pot???? any suggestions appreciated....

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#2 Musky17

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 07:59 AM

oops i meant 2-3 weeks into bloom......

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#3 Johnny5

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 03:16 PM

Hey Musky. Was going to say 32 weeks!! damn lol! Anyway it sucks that you are still having the problem. I have never had either bug you mentioned, but I have had some of my plants look like that; not only from ph being off, but the lack of calcium, and magnesium.
You are not using ro water I am guessing based on how high you ph is before nutes. I have switched to Sunshine Mix #4 now because I was having ph flux with the promix. I haven't had to check my run off in the past 3 grows. I just ph my water/nutes to 6.2 and its all good. I will see if I can find a pic of one of my leafs that looks like yours to show you.

Hope it isn't any pest though.

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#4 BenBranklin

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 06:25 AM

They are all screaming "Save me!!!" You can see it... lol
Def some kind of deficiency... almost looks like a nitrogen def, but its hard to say... new strain or something?
I would definitely take a second look at your nute calculations, they look like they are starving for something.

I also meant to say I was gonna say mites, but some of those leaves look intact but yellow, and having had a bad mite problem they do go brown but not all yellow quite like yours.

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#5 theac74

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 06:52 AM

I had the same prob. and mine turned out to be the size pots I was using. I had rootbound plants so I added 1tsp. of epsom salt per gal of water and since my plants were already in flower I did the double potting method where you take a pot larger than the one your growing in and fill it half way up with soil and wet it then sit your potted plant on top. This is supposed to let the roots,mainly the tap root, coming out of the drain holes, continue to grow, they set up in the soil of the second pot. It worked for me anyway. I just didnt want to repot while in flower. The epsom salt helped also. Good Luck!!

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#6 weedmen

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 07:02 AM

well i have been dealing with this same type of trouble with my babys and i still think its a ph problum and with the yellowing i would guess you changed from grow nutes to bloom nutes as the nitrogin level looks like they may have gone down ..i have this trouble with my babys because i use a strong mix of peatmoss in my mix ..i should no better but fuck i smoke pot so my minds not right all the time anyways haha ..but the idea it may be a gnat or a fungus gnat has got me woundering now ..altho theres no signs of bugs eating the plant other then the brown burnt spots on the leaves ..i would be intrested in seeing what your final concluision is..weedmen

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#7 theac74

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Posted 01 January 2010 - 06:04 AM

Hey dude here is a page that shows comparison pics and according to it your plants are normal because they are using all of the nitrogen stored in the fan leaves for the buds. Anyway maybe it will make you feel better about it http://www.cannabis...._in_colour.html

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#8 Tomato 420

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 12:55 AM

I'm a newbie. I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about at all, but... laugh


If I ever have any worries or concerns confused about fertilizer toxicities or deficiencies i simply flush the plants with a light - mild solution of a all purpose mixture.

If the pot is 3 gallons I dump 10 gallons of the nutrient solution through it. 5 gallons would be 15. give or take a few gallons

Then i simply carry on watering and fertilizing as normal, which for me is watering enough with my fertilizer mix to allow a gallon or two to drain out the bottom.

Is this a crazy technique?

Fungus Gnats are the devil. Those bastards attacked my plants last grow because I used a gravel mulch on the top of the pots. To get rid of them I bought fly strips for 50 cents each and layed them on the dirt. they got dirty and wet but they still caught hundreds of gnats. I layed them on the dirt since thats where the gnats are. The infestation didn't really seem to hurt the plants anyways.

good luck.

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#9 Belleville_Rick

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 07:12 AM

Yeah you really have to PH your water at least.

There could be a lot of things going on with the crops you've pictured.

Buy a good PH tester for $100 - pay for a good one - don't get a Hanna - they're cheap and they don't last - get an Oakton.

I keep mine in the range 6.1 - 6.9 and I aim for 6.5.

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#10 McLovin'

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 10:10 AM

I love my Oaktons

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#11 Musky17

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 05:08 PM

Ok the question isn't which Ph tester is the best? or when do they go wonky? Hanna's r fine. my crop is not going to go for a shit because my Ph meter is out .oo2 in my post I stated I never even Ph'd -b4 I ran into trouble- and easily got 1.3 lb dried gr8 bud under a 1000w. I only started "playing" around after I have run into this problem. That's why I think it could be bugs in the soil eating roots. If promix is a acidic medium that has a natural Ph of 4. and dolomitic lime is added to it to bring it to a neutral 7. .... from what I understand in a whole whack of other posts.....then why are we Phing down to 6.3 or whatever??? are we not fighting against the dolomitic lime? just curious I am not stating I think I am right, just questioning thats all. my grow room and veg room have changed in the fact that all the plants get droopy never "real" green etc. I am just chasing this thing around. bugs? ph? is there a chance that the city water has changed? has this happened to anyone? I have a bubble stone and let all my mixtures sit & bubble 24 hours before watering.

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#12 McLovin'

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 05:23 PM

and dolomitic lime is added to it to bring it to a neutral 7. .... from what I understand in a whole whack of other posts.....then why are we Phing down to 6.3 or whatever???




Promix is a soilless medium so the ph needs to be lower, 6.1-6.4 or something like that

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#13 Belleville_Rick

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 08:09 PM

Ok the question isn't which Ph tester is the best? or when do they go wonky? Hanna's r fine. my crop is not going to go for a shit because my Ph meter is out .oo2 in my post I stated I never even Ph'd -b4 I ran into trouble- and easily got 1.3 lb dried gr8 bud under a 1000w. I only started "playing" around after I have run into this problem. That's why I think it could be bugs in the soil eating roots. If promix is a acidic medium that has a natural Ph of 4. and dolomitic lime is added to it to bring it to a neutral 7. .... from what I understand in a whole whack of other posts.....then why are we Phing down to 6.3 or whatever??? are we not fighting against the dolomitic lime? just curious I am not stating I think I am right, just questioning thats all. my grow room and veg room have changed in the fact that all the plants get droopy never "real" green etc. I am just chasing this thing around. bugs? ph? is there a chance that the city water has changed? has this happened to anyone? I have a bubble stone and let all my mixtures sit & bubble 24 hours before watering.


<rolleyes>

If your PH is fucked up, it invites bugs too.

The causal chain would go like this:

Ph mess ---> Weakened Plant ---> Infestation

But a second causal chain also exists and it goes like this:

Gardener doesn't understand importance of PH ---> Therefore Grower is a dabbler, not a grower who reads books on marijuana growing, and doesn't listen to other growers, and probably hasn't kept his grow space clean, or has created numerous other messes that he's ill equipped, knowledge-wise, to handle.

Your post was called "Do you really have to PH?" and the answer is "Yes".

I had 1 year of successful farming WITHOUT testing PH but it's called 'shit luck'. All it takes is one bad dose from the city water supply (happened to me), or a bad run off getting into your well water, and your water PH WILL destroy your plants. Ignore this message at your own peril.

No, Hanna's ARE NOT fine. Talk to people who buy them and use them, like me, and they're NOT fine. Talk to the people who sell both brands, ffs, and they'll tell you Hanna's are shit compared to the Oakton, which has a 1 year warranty. The return rate on the Hanna's is more than 50% by the reports I hear from my hydro store and other unsatisfied customers.

I told you which PH tester to buy so you can save yourself money in the long run. But you're ungrateful, ok. Good, go ahead and buy a HANNA. And don't even bother testing your water with it. You deserve it.

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#14 FrodoBagins

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 07:29 AM

Greetings,


You have Mag deficiency, with your ph that high (7.9). the chlorine/chloramine is binding all of the Mg. My tap water is about the same PH as yours and I had the same issues for a while I'm a hydro grower so I cant tell you the correcy concentration for soil - but its definitely Mg and your plants shouldnt look like that 2 -3 weeks into bloom.

The cheapest remedy is Epsom salt, I just dont know how much you use for deficiency in soil, but I always add about 2 teaspoons to every 5 gallons in hydro to prevent deficiency mainly during flower - usually Mg deficiency doesnt show up until late into veg or bloom!!


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#15 Musky17

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 04:58 PM

Hey Bellville Rick....slow down dude and smoke a fatty. Is this your "casual chain" theory? I have seen some of your pics and read some of your solutions dude and I don't think that you have the background to start ...ahem...theorys!!! roll your eyes all day. casual chain? shit luck? dabbler? dirty? ill equipped? don't read or listen? Real nice pal. Ever consider my city water Ph has changed or I got bugs in a new bag of Pro-mix or I am using different nutes that changes the Ph? I never said it wasn't important I am chasing the problem and some times u have to back track.I was asking people that like to help just how important is it, not which Ph tester is better. I now fully understand the sagnifigance of Ph. My conclusion is that when it got humid in Aug. 09 I contacted bugs I got rid of the ones in the air but not in the soil, and the bag in waiting got infected. The reason I have been getting "lucky" is because...after testing...I found that after adding nutes that my Ph was 6.3-6.5 depending on if it was 850ppm or 1000ppm. An excellent forum in Toronto is DownTown Hydroponics and have followed his grow bible exclusively and he always says and still does that when using Pro-mix Ph ing is not necassary. So I didn't....and "got lucky". Ha. You see BR there are people that get satisfied very easily and there are people that try to make everything the best they can through experience and research. sometimes research leads you down the wrong path, but ya bounce back. Here is a pic of my garden after it got infested, You can imagine what the previous"Lucky" grows looked like. Satisfied? my buck says ya are!

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#16 Musky17

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 05:08 PM

I agree FrodoBagins, there is a Mg deficiency I was not aware that the chlorine is binding the Mg. Even if I let the water si sit bubbling for a day does this still occur? I have read that epsoms salts can fix Mg diff. before, does anyone know the ratio of epsom salts to water in pro-mix? does ES change the taste?

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#17 Musky17

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 05:19 PM

Ok I checked around Frodo and one thread I read said 1tsp of epsom salts to every 2 litres to correct mg def in soil. Seems like alot. Bugs are my main prob. getting rid of them right now as I type. Do u have exp. with fungus gnats?

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#18 Belleville_Rick

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 05:08 AM

Quote:
does ES change the taste?


Yes, adding ES makes your weed taste like Peking Duck, that's why you add it to the water.

Some people add tabasco sauce for that 'Buffalo Wing' flavor.

You've heard of adding molasses to the water supply? Yep, you guessed it, that's for that 'Honey Garlic' taste.






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#19 Tomato 420

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 09:24 PM

wtf B.R.?

Honey Garlic?

Musky

a simple google told me to keep the area free of dead and dyiny plant matter, "Drench the soil with a solution of pyrethrin, an organic pesticide made from chrysanthemums." and "Water with a solution of Bacillus thuringiensis, an organic control for caterpillars, to kill insect larvae. Bacillus thuringiensis (or Bt) is a bacteria and is safe to use around children and pets"

heard it was available at homedepot, couldn't find it on the internet site though

good luck, those bastards are gross

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#20 FrodoBagins

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 02:08 AM

No,

The Epsom salt won't affect the taste of the bud. Even if you allow the water to sit for a few days most municipalities use chloramine instead of chlorine, that stuff can hang around at high enough concentrations to bind mg for a week.

As for insects I'm hydro - I generally do a foliar application of Neem Oil every week till the 4th week of budding and I've never had any bug issues.

Not trying to be funny, but have you actually seen bugs in the soil?


Frodo

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