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I need a AC for my growroom. Which one?


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#1 growsunderground

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 04:24 AM

My room is 7x10' and 8' high so 70 sq ft or 560 cubic ft. It is 100% underground with a concrete roof with 4" duct in and outs. I have a inline fan (with a vari speed control) hooked to digital 1K cool tube and temps get up to 88 degrees during the day with 90 degree air being sucked in. Do not have Co2 generator hooked up yet, that will add to the temps. So in the summer I am sure I will need an ac. I hope when the temps cool off a fan will work fine with cold air being sucked in. ACs are on sale now so thinking about getting one. I assume I need an in room ac not a window unit. I saw one at lowes which was a 9000 btu but it said a duct distance of 3' is max. With veg room lay out 8' will be doable but not 3'. Here is a link to the unit I am looking at. Wal mart has one that is 7000btu that is simular. I do not have a window just concrete blocks!
http://www.lowes.com...r...&lpage=none

Thanks!!!

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#2 LittleGrower

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 09:19 AM

I wouldn't get the one you linked to at lowes. You're going to want to a dual hose model and that's a single. So you'll be fighting a loosing battle against the hot outside air being drawn in and cooled air being drawn out with a single. Unless you want to fuck with a diy intake duct that connects to the AC.

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#3 growsunderground

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 10:21 AM

littlegrower thanks for the input! Not sure which one you are talking about though never seen a dual hose. Hooked up the Co2 generator and with little addition to heat the ppm started jumping up on the digital co2 meter. I may can get by with out an ac not sure yet.

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#4 LittleGrower

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 11:05 AM

No problem.
Here is a pic of one (Danby) in use
http://forums.cannab...274#Post1555274
Here is the one I own,
Walmart (sold out unfortunately, I was going to buy a second one) & manufacturer website
If it is a dual hose AC it should say in the description either on the site selling it or the manufacturers site. If it's a single hose chances are it's not going to say anything aside from "comes with window attachment" or exhaust hose included".
If it's a single hose every bit of the exhaust (and the exhaust is generally powerful fan) will be air from the room sucked out and that includes air you paid to cool as well as air (hot outside air) drawn in by the negative pressure created.
A dual hose on the other hand uses the second hose as an intake there by making it far more efficient.

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#5 akfatman

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 06:55 PM

Is that three foot of duct height or three foot of duct. How far below the surface is the roof of your grow room?

First off though remember your air condioner should be near the top of the grow room. It should not sit on the floor regardless of the type. Simply remember it is always hotter at top and cold air sinks. That means if the aorconditiner is on the floor your taking the cooler air in the room and cooling it. The cold air then must be blown uo to the upper levels. Not very efficient. An airconditionetr at the top of the room is drawing in the warmer air and cooling it and the cold air that is then exhausted will cool all the air form top to bottom with little effort as the cold air will drop to the floor and displace the warmer lighter air.

A simple cheap widow air conditioner can easily be adapted to work. To use a widdow airconditioner inside you need only to bosx in the sides and back of the air conditioner. The boxing around the sides (to include top and bottom) will draw air from outside. The boxed in area from the rea will exhaust outside aor to outside. Boxes are simple to kake out of foam insulation boards and duct tape. Only the front of the airconditioner where the intalled and exhaust to the room are located should not be enclosed. You will find that under the front condensor (looks like a radiator) there will be a piece of sheet meatl bent to drain water to rhe back of the airconditioner. I add a small piece of sheet meatl with epoxy glue and use a tube to drain the water out the front to a drain/bucket. In an underground grow room you will likely have 20 to 40 pints of drain water per day from your air conditionrer.

Cost: Air conditioner $125 (5000 btu/hr Sears Kenmore), foam board $20, duct tape and misc $10. The only air being exhausted outside will be oustside air so no carbon filter will be needed for odor.

Btu/hr for 1000 watt light with 75% efficiency. (1000 x 0.75) x 3.41 = 2557.5 btu/hr. So with a 1000 watt uncooled light and no air venting the airconditioner will run approximattely 50% of the time the lights are on if you set the temperture control for a maximum of your morning low temperature reading. Ventilation if the outside temperature is lower that will drop the running time. If the temperature is allowed to rise some over the night time low taht will cut running time. Unless you have a huhe grow room, which you do not, and live in a warm climate which you apparently do a heat generating CO2 sourse would not be a waise purchase As the heat it would produce would pretty mauch cost more to remove than the cost advantage of a heater CO2 source versus a bottled CO2 source. Outside greenhouses with huge vents can exhaust A heater type CO2 generators heat cheaply without using electricity (usually). An enclosed stealth grow room with fans and airconditioners can not cheaply remove the heat so bottled CO2 is cheaper to use.

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#6 growsunderground

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 01:54 AM

Little grower thanks for the input and links! Akfatman my roof is 5 1/2" thick of concrete. It is at soil level giving the illusion the slab is sitting on the ground.

As for Co2 generator I hooked it up yeasterday with a digital ppm controler. My CO2ppm is 1300-1200 and my temp went up 3 degrees. I have read with CO2 you can go 5 degrees warmer if so the math works out in my favor. This is summer and winter temp should #1 cool that concrte slab/roof down and #2 bring in cool air to cool the room. In the small town I live in there is no reason to own a CO2 tank and fill it regular( I played paintball for a while again no reason). There are many places including gas stations now that exchange propane tanks. A generator with out a doubt was the way to go!

Thanks for the info on the AC, not sure which way to go! Cheaper mean more water having to drain. I may try and wait for next summer but would like to take advantage of any $$ deals on ACs.

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#7 akfatman

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Posted 23 August 2009 - 05:14 PM

The problem with most portable air conditioners besides their higher price is that most of them are single hose. That is as stated by Littlegrower a waste of money. However being your slab is all that covers the roof then it could be esaily used by putting it up on a stand or shelf si]o it is near the roof/ceiling height. They typically cost about 3 to 4 times as much as an equally btu sized window airconditioner. Plus most of them have digital controls that are set by a remote control and they must be reset at least once every 24 hours. Most people disconnect the digital controls wire it up to run high famn, low compressor and hook the power inlet to a bthermostat are Ranco temperature controller. The small window units from Sears have manual dial controls not digital. Therefore h just make your selections set the temp for the lowest possible and plug the power cord into a good thermostat or Ranco controller. At 60 watts or more per square foot and CO2 at 1200 to 1300 ppm is good for a temp of up to around 80 degrees. For temps higher than that or for the maximum growth rate (double yield) run up to 2000 ppm and 80 to 85 degrees and throw on extra lighting if you have it (up to 90 watts/ft). If your CO2 generator or water sytem goes out at those temps though and your lights stay on your plants will be toast. Expect a humidity of 90 percent or more without an airconditioner or heavy ventilation with CO2 enrichment and high light and temperatures.

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#8 growsunderground

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Posted 24 August 2009 - 04:31 AM

akfatman thanks again!
Here is the digital Co2, temp and humidity controler I have.

http://www.hydroponics.net/i/133932

I can set day and night temps retrieve max temps. I think this is what I need to control an AC.

Why do indoors plants need cooler temps than outdoor? They grow great weed in Jamaica and temps are in the 90s all summer right??

When I have an AC should I also run a fan (have vari speed control)hooked to my cool tube and 600 watt veg room custom glass enclosure to vent out the very hot air so the AC does not have to cool it?

I assume the dual hose you would have one hose on in air duct and one on the out air duct? This would cool the incomming air not inside the room air. Is this right??

Thanks again you guys are great! I thought my tems would be much cooler than they are being underground. I hope winter is better! Adding an ac now I have more concerns!

I father helped install power and water to my room/storm shelter. I think we ran 12/2 cable and a 30amp breaker. Do I now need another cable and breaker to run 1k flower, around 700 veg, AC, Co2 gen and computer, fans and air pumps for hydro?

Is this starting to be a enough power to worry about the power bill? I am in an average size home with average power bill.

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#9 akfatman

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 05:19 AM



I can set day and night temps retrieve max temps. I think this is what I need to control an AC.
The controller provides both a circuit for heating and cooling. So one would be a heater and the other an airconditioner out let.

Why do indoors plants need cooler temps than outdoor? They grow great weed in Jamaica and temps are in the 90s all summer right??
Outside plants have a never ending amount of CO2, whereas a enclosed area only has as n much as you provide. Most people do not realise that outdoor grwon pot would gt row even better if there was more CO2 present in the air. The mani limiting agent to growth for out door plants is that there is a lon mited level of CO2. At hot temperatures the plants grwoth is limited by low CO2 levels outside even in Jamica. You also have to consider there are many different strains, mutations etc of pot. For an example a Russian Ruderalis would not due well in a hot climate it is crossed (bred) with a strain that has naturally developed in a hot climate so as to grow in hot climates.

When I have an AC should I also run a fan (have vari speed control)hooked to my cool tube and 600 watt veg room custom glass enclosure to vent out the very hot air so the AC does not have to cool it?
Yes, it would just be run by the lighting circuit so taht it aleways ran when the lighting circuit was activated.

I assume the dual hose you would have one hose on in air duct and one on the out air duct? This would cool the incomming air not inside the room air. Is this right??
Kinda sorta. There are to sets of coils in the airconditioner (front and back or top and bottom). The front one has a fan blowing air through ot that comes from the room only. The air blown through the coils is cooled by the coil extracting the heat from the air. This heat is sent to a comt ressor and another coil. The one outside vent brings air to that second coil and the other takes the a now hot air out side. That means the oustside air never enters the room but just flows through the second coil and past the compressor to remove the heat to outdoors.

As a result of this cooling the o air conditioners also lowers the humidity of your air. The only thing you might want to consider is a dehumidifier to remove humidity if you also grow during the winter as the airconditoioner will not run enough during the winter to keep the humidity as low as it should be during budding if you use a CO2 geneartor or bottled CO2. You must cond sider that the CO@ will graetly increase the growth rate which means the plants will alos transpire much more moisture (like sweating more when working harder). A humidifier does not need a vent. Actually a hunidifier is a lot like a single hose portable air conditioner that is not ducted outside. It has two coils like an airconditioner and a compressor. It colls the air to condense te moisture but then it warms the air back up and blows it back into the room.

Thanks again you guys are great! I thought my tems would be much cooler than they are being underground. I hope winter is better! Adding an ac now I have more concerns!

I father helped install power and water to my room/storm shelter. I think we ran 12/2 cable and a 30amp breaker. Do I now need another cable and breaker to run 1k flower, around 700 veg, AC, Co2 gen and computer, fans and air pumps for hydro?

Is this starting to be a enough power to worry about the power bill? I am in an average size home with average power bill.


It is no more power than would be used by a central airconditioner, maybe less. I have reef aquariums using as much power. When they really start snooping around is when you start installing another full 200 amp panel and use it. It does not hurt to have power equipment around like electric welders, table saw, chest freezer etc. Window aircondtioners in your windows even if they do not run. When they do their looking to satisfy their curiousity the do not stick around to see the things actually run. I tend to have my garage full of things that use electricity. I go a little extreme and even have saw dust on my garage floor. I have a chest freezer on my back porch. It is locked and it has a plugged in cord. It is empty and two prongs of the cords plug are cut off. Only the ground prong holds it in place in the outlet. I look like a legitimate power user. I am already a drug felon so I tend to be a bit more paranoid than those without a record.

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#10 growsunderground

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 06:56 AM

Thanks again akfatman! Tons of good info! So more Co2 higher the temps can be. I am about to go buy an AC. Having a hard time finding an in room dual will most likely by a window unit and build the boxs like you recommended with a drain tube to a rez. So I need two boxs one around the sides(in air) and one around the rear (out air) and insulate them and run ducts.

Will a 30amp breaker run all this stuff or do I need another wire and breaker?

I have a seperate house and garage power bill. Thought about growing in garage first and knew that would be a big jump in that bill (it's always small) so hooked to the house and built the storm shelter near the house.
If they start snooping around I am finished growing!
Don't want it to get so high they think about checking on me.
I have a 3 bedroom home and 2 bedrooms are not heated/cooled due to them being a guestroom and storage, think I will be good but paranoid too!

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#11 growsunderground

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 03:42 AM

Bought a 5200 window ac yeasterday for $90. Could not find a single dual hose with out ordering it and paying 5x as much. Going to make custom boxs and storage which I do need in my room. Got some insulated duct as well my non insulated I could tell was very warm and heating up my room. Will mount AC up high, thanks AK for the info. Noticed my grow room temp had a low of 78 degrees through the night. The high during the day has been 88.5, it was warmer than that outside. I like max and min recall on my computer. Hope AC does not run too much.

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#12 akfatman

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 09:11 PM

About 600 watts for the air conditioner. It should not run constantly during the light cycle as it would take about 2500 watts of lighting with no cooling y tubes etc to produce enough heat to cause the air conditioner to run constant. Actually it would take more than that as some of the heat is being absorbed n by everything in the room, the soil surrounding the room and the concrete slab above the room.

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#13 growsunderground

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 04:06 PM

My window ac has a problem! The compressor cuts off after few minetes and goes in to fan mode it only drops the temp 1 1/2 degrees before. I can only guess it is over heating with the out air box. I can't build a big air out box due to size of room. Did not plan an AC in to the design. Any input on how to get by with an AC or do I need to go H20 cooled with a chiller? Damn I dont need to drop another 1k on a chiller, pump and H20 cooled hood!!

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#14 akfatman

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 03:41 AM

The out flow of air should be able to be easily contained within a 6" hose/duct. Yoou might have to f much frictional losses in your box desihn and duct either on the input air or the output air. You can ony blow out as much air as you draw in. I would first try adding a fan to the inlet air. Something like the cheap inlib ne duct fans that acually are just inside a piece of round metal duct. Here is one on eBay, but they should also be available from HomeDepot and such. http://cgi.ebay.com/...id=p3286.c0.m14

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#15 growsunderground

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 04:12 AM

Thanks again Akfatman! Bought a inline duct booster and hope I can cool down the grow room! I will install today and hope this does it! Don't want to switch to H20 cooled it will not be easy in my room due to size and the size of my hidden vertical door!

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#16 growsunderground

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Posted 04 September 2009 - 07:15 AM

The booster did it! Thanks Akfatman for all the info! Got the AC hooked to the digital control. Running 1200-1300ppm and 85 during day and 80 at night. I am sure 5 degrees cooler would be better but small steps. Will switch to 18-6 veg soon been running 24 so I can work in there. I am veging in my flower room now so I can finish building. I think I may make the H20 switch in the spring before hot temps again. Looking forward to cooler temps and see how much this helps my room. My concrete roof should get cold and transfer the cold air down.

Thanks again Akfatman!

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#17 akfatman

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Posted 04 September 2009 - 02:10 PM

Those temps are not that high as long as you provide the CO2 and plenty of water/nutrients and can keep your nutrient water from getting to hot. I would check the nutrient water temp as that is more of a concern than your present room temp as long as the CO2 and water/nutrients needs are met.

Gotta remember when you raise one thing the other needs go up so they must be increased also. As long as you can keep your nutrients water at reasonable temps your b next potential problem should not come until budding when you might have a humidity problem. As long as it is hot enough to need the air conditioner humidity should not be a problem. If the tempearures drop in winter you might need to exhaust your airconditioner in to the grow room. doing so would mean it would be a large dehumidifier in effect. It would not cool the room but it would dehumidify it by exhausting into the room instead of outside.

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#18 can i smoke now

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 07:50 AM

hey guys just reading your posts and am looking for advive on a air extractor for a shed ive just built the room is covered in black/white sheeting it has a 400w hps light in there and i think im gunna have temp probs i have a fan in there but really need to move some of this hot air out.. can you tell me a cheep way of making a extractor that will work and be as quite as poss

blah

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#19 nughead9315

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Posted 27 September 2009 - 09:38 PM

excel air

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#20 raphaelwilliams

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 10:44 PM

the Evastars 10,000 BTU air-conditioners are really nice.

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